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Travel Forum / Travel Types / Air Travel / December 2007RTW planning & airfare
I'm hoping to take an Around The World trip, and I'm not sure how to do the airfare, and this newsgroup seems to be the place for experts! Trip basics: 4/2008 - 8/2008 budgeted $8,000 for the trip (I'd rather not spend it all, but I can) places I very much want to visit: West Africa - Egypt - China - South- east Asia places I'd also like to visit: East Africa - Israel - India - Mongolia - Indonesia - New Zealand - Easter Island I'm happy to have the destinations all mapped out in advance, but I'd like to be able to move dates around; if I'm having a blast in Egypt, I'd like to be able to stay an extra week or two before moving on to my next thumbtack. Maybe I should also note that I'm 24 and happy to sleep in hostels, on trains, etc. From what I've read, my two main options are doing an alliance RTW (Star Alliance or Flying Dutchman) or going through an agent (STA Travel or AirTrek). Since I'd really like flexibility in my trip, I'm leaning towards alliance, but boy, do I feel ignorant. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! all the best, Jake >I'm hoping to take an Around The World trip, and I'm not sure how to >do the airfare, and this newsgroup seems to be the place for experts! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Travel or AirTrek). Since I'd really like flexibility in my trip, I'm >leaning towards alliance, but boy, do I feel ignorant. I've flown the Star Alliance RTW fare several times. For my money, it can't be beat. There are three levels, depending on how many stops you want to make and the total miles flown. They also have some regional addons that may work for you. One of the nice things about the RTW fares is that they are completely flexible & changeable, subject to the basic scheme. In fact, you only have to define the first leg and can leave the rest open. You can try planning your trip at www.staralliance.com but for some reason they don't tell you what the fares are. To get that, just search of Star Alliance RTW fare and you'll find web sites that publish the fares. > "jakecoo...@gmail.com" <jakecoo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >I'm hoping to take an Around The World trip, and I'm not sure how to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > don't tell you what the fares are. To get that, just search of Star Alliance RTW > fare and you'll find web sites that publish the fares. Thanks for the response. I should be more specific with my questions about the alliance RTWs: If I go for the Star Alliance RTW fare... - do I have to determine my mileage in advance? - what happens if I want to go over my mileage (ei, I buy the 29,000 mile fare, but want to go 34,000 instead)? - is the ticket the same price no matter your start/return city (Chicago, for me)? - if not, is the price difference maybe worth "starting" from another country (and taking a normal flight to get back home)? - if I purchase the SA RTW, what do I actually _get_, and how does it work? I'm imagining some crazy holograph ticket that you can show at any alliance airline kiosk and get on the flight :) I mean, I know that's not true, but... see, I don't know very much, do I! - if I land in Beijing, but end up in Shanghai later, do I have to get back to Beijing to continue my trek? - suppose I'm gung-ho about the SA RTW; how do I actually purchase the ticket? All these questions apply to any alliance RTW ticket, if anyone reading knows about other alliance-based options. And if anyone has used a travel agent for an RTW, I'd love to hear your advice as well. Thanks again, Jake > You can try planning your trip at www.staralliance.com but for some reason > they don't tell you what the fares are. To get that, just search of Star > Alliance RTW fare and you'll find web sites that publish the fares. Actually, the Star Alliance RTW Mileage calculator (online or downloadable) _will_ tell you the base fare applicable to the itinerary you give it, in accordance with your particular combination of the three determining variables: (a) where you start/end your trip, (b) where you sit in the plane and (c) how far you fly. The exact total fare for any given itinerary will depend on details such as your specific airport taxes, surcharges, etc. and you won't find that on any web site because only the rate desk can add it all up. cheers, Henry > I'm hoping to take an Around The World trip, and I'm not sure how to > do the airfare, and this newsgroup seems to be the place for experts! [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > all the best, > Jake \\\ Both oneWorld and Star Alliance have calculator programs on their web sites that will help you plan a trip and then fare it. Then use hotels.com or a similar discount site to find your accommodation. > I'm hoping to take an Around The World trip, and I'm not sure how to > do the airfare, and this newsgroup seems to be the place for experts! [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > all the best, > Jake The only airline that flies to Easter Island is LAN Chile and they are a member of oneWorld. Africa is a bit of an aviation black hole at the best of times but I suspect Star will serve you better there. First of all, thanks to all! Really appreciate the help. Still don't know the difference between using an alliance (Star Alliance RTW) or a travel agent (STA Travel). Unless somebody advises otherwise, I think I'll go Star Alliance. I started trying to nail down itineraries to get an idea of mileage, and I've come across difficulty. Here's an example of an itinerary I made up: Chicago - Tel Aviv - Cairo - Ethiopia - Delhi - Beijing - Bangkok - Jakarta - Melbourne - Auckland - Papeete - Chicago (ORD - TLV - CAI - ADD - DEL - PEK - BKK - CGK - MEL - AKL - PPT - ORD) The trouble is, on Star Alliance RTW Mileage Calculator, most of these flights don't exist. For example, no flights are found for Cairo to Ethiopia (CAI - ADD), yet EgyptAir seems to by hubbed in Cairo, flies to ADD, and is in the Star Alliance. If there really is no flight from CAI to ADD, do I just have to keep trying airports 'til I find one that works? Thanks again, Jake > First of all, thanks to all! Really appreciate the help. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Thanks again, > Jake Egyptair and Star have signed to *allow* Egyptair to become a member. This process can take up to 18 months. It would seem that the process is not yet complete so Egyptair is not yet available on their RTW fares. At the moment, fare rules for Star RTW fares list the following carriers as being useable (with limitations) AC/BD/CA/FM/JK/JP/KF/LH/LO/LX/NH/NZ/OS/OU/OZ/SA/SK/BU/SQ/TG/TP/UA/US I say "with limitations" because generally only flights actually operated by the carrier can be booked - there are restrictions about booking code share particularly where the code share is operated by a non star member. The integration process covers all sorts of things. To give one example - booking class codes. Some airlines use C as their primary code or business class while others use J. Lets assume MS use J but the Star rule is C. MS will have to load their flighst into their reservations system using the new class codes (there will be more than one change). That data then has to percolate out to other reservations systems (only a couple of days) but that has knock on effects on existing flights - anyone with an existing J booking will have to have it changed to C which may mean that MS will choose to start the new system for a new booking season which could mean 363 days in advance = hence the 18 month period. The advantage of talking to a travel agency is they should know about all this and will be able to advise you. People like STA sell star tickets but they also know enough about the world travel system to know that local fares for travel on a given route sometimes add up to less than a through RTW icket (although such cominations usually come with restrictions you will find irksome and aslso assume you will travel overland some of the time). One last thing, there is nothing to stop you buying local tickets to fill gaps in a star routing. You folks are really a wealth of information. Thank you. If I have this right: 1 - EgyptAir is not yet a member of Star Alliance, and (most likely) won't be by April 2008. So toss that out. 2 - I could, however, fly with EgyptAir on my own dime, and then resume my Star Alliance RTW. The EgyptAir miles would somehow count for my total RTW mileage as "overland" miles. 3 - This is ridiculous in retrospect, but just because an airline "serves" airport A and airport B, that doesn't mean there's a flight from A to B. At all. 4 - Travel agencies can get RTW tickets for you; they're not mutually exclusive. Of course, they'll tack on their fee. 5 - Three-letter codes are airports; two-letter codes are airlines; one-letter stuff refers to classes. 6 - Airfare for the kind of travel I'm planning will likely be in the $4000-$5000 range (economy class). 7 - If I get an RTW, it may be cheaper to pop up to Canada (I'm in Chicago) and start the trip from there. 8 - When comparing ticket prices, don't forget taxes. Apparently they can be hefty. 9 - Given my itinerary (no Americas, no Europe), Star Alliance is my best bet for an alliance RTW. Thanks again. -Jake See the <Graham>s below. > You folks are really a wealth of information. Thank you. > > If I have this right: > > 1 - EgyptAir is not yet a member of Star Alliance, and (most likely) > won't be by April 2008. So toss that out. <Graham> That is my reading of the press releases on the Star web site. An agency should be able to help but it might be worth contact Egypt Air direct to check this out > 2 - I could, however, fly with EgyptAir on my own dime, and then > resume my Star Alliance RTW. <Graham> Yes The EgyptAir miles would somehow count > for my total RTW mileage as "overland" miles. <Graham> No. It is a separate ticket. The Star ticket has its' own mileage. Any ticket you buy on any other airline is a completely separate deal. > 3 - This is ridiculous in retrospect, but just because an airline > "serves" airport A and airport B, that doesn't mean there's a flight > from A to B. At all. <Graham> Yes, but not ridiculous. Why would United fly from Buenos Aires to Tokyo? You can use United to get between those two cites by coming via the US but you'll be changing planes at least once. And, although Buenos Aires and Tokyo are (in their ways) both major cities the traffic between them does not justify any airline running a direct or non stop flight. And, before you ask direct means the you use the same plane thoughout but it may stop en route while non-stop is what it says. Oh and direct flights can have a change of gague. This means that although the flight number doesn't change you fly on one plane from A to B then a different plane B-C and the size of each plane is probably different (e.g. a 777 London to Washington then a 757 on to Denver) > 4 - Travel agencies can get RTW tickets for you; they're not mutually > exclusive. Of course, they'll tack on their fee. <Graham> Definitely. > 5 - Three-letter codes are airports; two-letter codes are airlines; > one-letter stuff refers to classes. <Graham> Yes. Some airline codes are two character (e.g 2F or F2) > 6 - Airfare for the kind of travel I'm planning will likely be in the > $4000-$5000 range (economy class). <Graham> I haven't looked it up but that sounds about right. > 7 - If I get an RTW, it may be cheaper to pop up to Canada (I'm in > Chicago) and start the trip from there. <Graham> Again haven't looked it but anomalies like that do occur. > 8 - When comparing ticket prices, don't forget taxes. Apparently they > can be hefty. <Graham> Absolutely. > 9 - Given my itinerary (no Americas, no Europe), Star Alliance is my > best bet for an alliance RTW. <Graham> There are three alliances, Star, oneWorld and Sky Team. I doubt if Sky Team really meets your needs so the choice is probably Star or maybe oneWorld. This is where the agency comes in. > Thanks again. > -Jake <Graham> oh and don't foget to check for health requirements and visas and make sure your passport has spare pages and at least 6 months validity from the day you arrive back home. Some countries have some funny ideas about allowing people in on about to expire passports and insist on having a clean page to stamp. Before the days of the alliances there were "casual" alliances where airlines got together to offer RTW tickets. A few of those still exist; again I doubt if any suit you but an agency should be able to help. > <jakecooper@gmail.com> wrote in message > > 2 - I could, however, fly with EgyptAir on my own dime, and then > > resume my Star Alliance RTW. > <Graham> Yes > >The EgyptAir miles would somehow count > > for my total RTW mileage as "overland" miles. > <Graham> No. It is a separate ticket. The Star ticket has its' [sic] own > mileage. Any ticket you buy on any other airline is a completely separate > deal. Actually, Jake is exactly right. Say you wanted your world-round to include ...-FRA-ADD-CAI-SIN-... . Since there is no *A service bertween Ethiopia and Egypt, ADD-CAI would have to be on a separate ticket, without regard to the RTW. But, for RTW mileage purposes, the ADD-CAI sector IS counted, as an 'intermediate surface segment'. *A doesn't know or doesn't care how you get from ADD to CAI; all they know is that your RTW paused with a stopover in ADD and resumes with a departure from CAI, and according to the rules the distance between those points must be included in the total count of the RTW. cheers, Henry >> <jakecooper@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Henry You're right. I hadn't looked at the rules. In addition, both CAI and ADD will be considered as a stopover against the maximum number allowed. > 3 - This is ridiculous in retrospect, but just because an airline > "serves" airport A and airport B, that doesn't mean there's a flight > from A to B. At all. <Graham> Yes, but not ridiculous. -------------- I meant my thought was ridiculous (that there would be a nonstop flight from A to B). EgyptAir isn't part of *A, but I saw that Lufthansa serves both TLV and CAI. Of course, to get from TLV to CAI on Lufthansa means going via Frankfurt... Okay, one more general question for now: If I have a *A RTW, and I'm having such a blast in Delhi that I want to push the next flight back five days, how do I do that? I call the carrier for that leg and see what happens? If instead, I'm on a travel agent's hodgepodge of one-way tickets, what then? Do I have to call my travel agent in America? And thank you all particularly for the jargon lessons. It's tough to even phrase a question appropriately without knowing the difference between, say, "nonstop" and "direct," or the difference between an airport code and a carrier code. best, Jake >> 3 - This is ridiculous in retrospect, but just because an airline >> "serves" airport A and airport B, that doesn't mean there's a flight [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > best, > Jake >Okay, one more general question for now: >If I have a *A RTW, and I'm having such a blast in Delhi that I want >to push the next flight back five days, how do I do that? I call the >carrier for that leg and see what happens? Yep. They reissue the ticket and you enjoy the extra days in Delhi... > "jakecoo...@gmail.com" <jakecoo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >Okay, one more general question for now: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yep. They reissue the ticket and you enjoy the extra days in Delhi... Thank you all. Very informative stuff. Time for me to start pegging down the itinerary, and then I'll call either the travel agent (still debating what the agent can offer that I can't do myself) or call United (first leg carrier). Then I may have more specific questions, but for now, I feel much better informed. Thanks again all. Safe travels. -Jake > >Okay, one more general question for now: > >If I have a *A RTW, and I'm having such a blast in Delhi that I want > >to push the next flight back five days, how do I do that? I call the > >carrier for that leg and see what happens? > > Yep. They reissue the ticket and you enjoy the extra days in Delhi... Actually, nope. On a *A RTW it is not necessary to reissue the ticket for a simple date change. You can contact either (a) whoever issued the ticket or (b) the carrier for the leg you want to change and they just rebook you on the flight you want (assuming availability, etc.). There are some rules regarding the permissibility of making changes when you are at the very beginning of your trip, but once you are past that stage it is quite straightforward. Date / time / flight changes are basically unlimited and FREE, when your travel remains A > B. If you change your routing, however, _then_ the ticket must be 'reissued' and for that there is a service charge of (last time I looked) something like US$125. cheers, Henry > You folks are really a wealth of information. Thank you. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Thanks again. > -Jake An example. When my son left university he bought himself a oneWorld RTW from STA in London. It was issued on a BA ticket. The routing was LHR/SIN <overland> HKG/TPE/TYO/MEL <overland> SYD/AKL/LAX/SFO <overland> CHI/LHR He got to Singapore, took the train up through Malaysia to Bangkok (with various stops on the way) where he was supposed to join a tour to Hanoi. That got cancelled so he bought a local plane ticket to Hanoi where he picked up a second tour through southern China to Hong Kong. In HKG he got a second China visa and went back to Guangzho to visit a friend for Christmas. In the new year he picked up his flights again until he got to Australia. When he got there he went to reconfirm his flight and the person in Qantas said "do you know you can have some flights in Australia for a nominal fee?". So they reissued his ticket and I forget the precise routing but he went to Ayres Rock, the Great Barrier Reef and Brisbane. Back on the original routing he got to the US having spent a month in NZ took the train from Oakland up to Vancouver (Canada), met a friend and they travelled together all the way to Halifax. He then had a couple of weeks to kill because he wanted to be in Chicago on a specific date. This time he went to American who reissued his ticket again to fly YHZ/NYC/DFW/Chihuaua/DFW/ORD and again there was a cost but not too high. He went for a ride on the Copper Canyon railway. The day he was due to fly home from Chicago BA went on strike and he ended up on an AA flight back to London. Took him nine months. Enjoy yourself. > First of all, thanks to all! Really appreciate the help. > > Still don't know the difference between using an alliance (Star > Alliance RTW) or a travel agent (STA Travel). Unless somebody advises > otherwise, I think I'll go Star Alliance. What about other alliances? |
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