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Travel Forum / Travel Types / Air Travel / May 2008$15 fee for Seat Assignment on Northwest, is this normal?
My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night because at the time of her reservation there were only middle seats available, and she wanted to change her seat assignment. The phone agent told her that there were now plenty of window and aisle seats available, and that she could change the seat assignment for a $15 fee. I've never heard of such a thing. Are they intentionally showing window and aisle seats as reserved to the travel agents, so the agents will book passengers into middle seats, so the passenger will have to pay for a seat assignment change? One thing the phone agent let slip was that there was only a seat assignment change charge because the ticket was purchased through a travel agent (this was a business trip and the corporate travel agent got the tickets). If the ticket had been purchased directly from Northwest then there would be no seat assignment change charge. Yes, it's normal. Airlines are scrambling for revenue anywhere they can find it, and seat selection nuisance fees have become quite common, as has a charge for checking a second bag. It's also common for them to use a variety of tricks to persuade you to buy from the airline's own web site rather than over the phone or through agents. > Yes, it's normal. Airlines are scrambling for revenue anywhere they > can find it, and seat selection nuisance fees have become quite common, > as has a charge for checking a second bag. It's also common for them > to use a variety of tricks to persuade you to buy from the airline's > own web site rather than over the phone or through agents. They pay no commission, other than to corporate travel agents, so why do they care if the ticket is purchased on their own web site. > why do they care if the ticket is purchased on their own web site. Because most agency bookings are made through a GDS (Apollo/Galileo/Sabre/Amadeus/Worldpsan) and the GDS charge the airline a fee for that service. That fee is in addtion to the cost of holding the booking in their own computer whereas if the booking is made via the website they only pay the cost of holding the booking in their computer. I personally think that is a simplistic arguement - it ignores other costs that the airline incurs when they look after the booking themselves. Yes.......I think you will see more of these type of fees in the future due to the rising fuel costs. ---- http://www.moviesitearchive.com/travel > My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night > because at the time of her reservation there were only middle seats [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > got the tickets). If the ticket had been purchased directly from > Northwest then there would be no seat assignment change charge. > Yes.......I think you will see more of these type of fees in the > future due to the rising fuel costs. Don't NW give you the ability to change seats online, even if purchased elsewhere? >> Yes.......I think you will see more of these type of fees in the >> future due to the rising fuel costs. > > Don't NW give you the ability to change seats online, even if purchased > elsewhere? She tried to do it online and it wouldn't let her. > Yes.......I think you will see more of these type of fees in the > future due to the rising fuel costs. Good, these sorts of fees will help reduce over-crowding on planes as more people get fed up with this kind of thing. Fewer passengers will mean lower fuel usage as the weight of the plane will be less. Fuel costs will go down, though unfortunately at the expense of a ticket sale. >> Yes.......I think you will see more of these type of fees in the >> future due to the rising fuel costs. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mean lower fuel usage as the weight of the plane will be less. Fuel > costs will go down, though unfortunately at the expense of a ticket sale. Really? Why wouldn't they just simply buy the ticket from the airline to avoid the charge? > My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night > because at the time of her reservation there were only middle seats > available, and she wanted to change her seat assignment. The phone agent > told her that there were now plenty of window and aisle seats available, > and that she could change the seat assignment for a $15 fee Booking (or changing a booking) on the phone with an agent costs $ 15.00 She should have done it "online" at NWA.com >> My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night >> because at the time of her reservation there were only middle seats [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Booking (or changing a booking) on the phone with an agent costs $ 15.00 > She should have done it "online" at NWA.com She tried, it wouldn't let her change it. Maybe you have to book online in order to be able to make changes online. >>> My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night >>> because at the time of her reservation there were only middle seats [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > She tried, it wouldn't let her change it. Maybe you have to book online > in order to be able to make changes online. Why didn't she contact her travel agent to change it? >>>> My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night >>>> because at the time of her reservation there were only middle seats [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Why didn't she contact her travel agent to change it? Travel agents have worse hours than bankers. This was Friday night, long after the corporate travel agents have gone home. There's an "emergency" number, but this wasn't an emergency. >> Why didn't she contact her travel agent to change it? > Travel agents have worse hours than bankers. This was Friday > night, long after the corporate travel agents have gone home. > There's an "emergency" number, but this wasn't an emergency. One alternative, for future reference, would be to show up at the airport early enuff that the ticket or gate agent still had some exit row seats (they often hold those until they "see" who wants one) or other seats open, and claim a "intestinal" need for an aisle seat. BTW, some discount airlines charge a fee simply to assign any seat prior to check-in. >>>Why didn't she contact her travel agent to change it? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > row seats (they often hold those until they "see" who wants one) > or other seats open, and claim a "intestinal" need for an aisle seat. Exit row seats are often selected by frequent flyers in advance, and are often not available at the airport. >>>> Why didn't she contact her travel agent to change it? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Exit row seats are often selected by frequent flyers in advance, and are > often not available at the airport. On Delta she often gets bumped into first class since she uses them so often (she lives in Atlanta). After the merger, she'll get the same treatment on NW presumably. >>>>> My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night >>>>> because at the time of her reservation there were only middle seats [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > after the corporate travel agents have gone home. There's an "emergency" > number, but this wasn't an emergency. Why didn't she ask about seats when she booked it? >>>>>> My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night >>>>>> because at the time of her reservation there were only middle [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Why didn't she ask about seats when she booked it? She did. At the time, all the windows and aisles were unavailable, and all that was left was middle seats. Yet the day before the flight, suddenly there were plenty of window and aisle seats. Maybe the airline intentionally makes window and aisle seats unavailable until shortly before the flight, in order to generate revenue from people trying to change their seats. Does she have an "online Worldperks" account with password etc ? I do (for about 20 yrs) and it works fine for me. >> Booking (or changing a booking) on the phone with an agent costs $ 15.00 >> She should have done it "online" at NWA.com > > She tried, it wouldn't let her change it. Maybe you have to book online in > order to be able to make changes online. On 17/05/08 16:37, in article T0CXj.4168$7k7.1369@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com, > My sister has a flight on NW today. She called the airline last night > because at the time of her reservation there were only middle seats [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I've never heard of such a thing. It is generally coming, nickel and dimming the passengers. Päy toilets are next. After which they will charge you by your weight. **** It'll cost you $15 to check one bag AMERICAN AIRLINES TO LEVY NEW FEE BEGINNING JUNE 15 By Deborah Lohse Mercury News Article Launched: 05/22/2008 01:30:22 AM PDT Airlines have started charging for food. Headsets and exit-row seating cost extra, too. Now, American Airlines has become the first major U.S. carrier to charge for yet another service that used to be free: checking a bag. Starting June 15, passengers who don't pay full fare or who aren't high-end frequent fliers will have to pay $15 for their first checked bag. The change comes as American, like other airlines, grapples with $130-a-barrel oil prices and a weak national economy. American posted a $328 million first-quarter loss last month. The Fort Worth company also announced plans to cut flights by 11 percent, which San Jose officials fear will affect some of American's 29 daily flights from Mineta San Jose International Airport. American also plans to raise various fees such as those for unaccompanied minors, non-Internet flight booking and itinerary changes. At least one airline industry consultant believes other airlines will quickly follow suit. Indeed, United Airlines told the New York Times on Wednesday that it is "seriously studying" a charge for the first checked bag. Most large U.S. carriers already have instituted fees for a second bag. In the business world, what American is doing is called "unbundling" - or charging fees for things that used to be "bundled" into the ticket price. AirTran, for instance, charges $6 for the ability to select one's seat. JetBlue has said it will start charging soon for pillows. Rationale for fees Airlines argue that adding fees this way is preferable to fare hikes because in theory, at least, passengers who don't want to use the services can avoid them. And airlines can't just raise fares whenever it suits them because the industry is so competitive that they'd surely lose passengers. "There is hardly any other product or service out there where a customer can instantly compare all the prices and products and services of every competitor," said American spokesman Tim Smith. But to many passengers, checking luggage is hardly a luxury. "What is all that cargo space for?" asked Trudy Karl, a Salinas-area graphic designer who was waiting for an arriving passenger at Mineta International Wednesday. Several travelers griped that overhead bins are already too full - and that American's new fee will just spur more people to try to cram their belongings there, slowing down boarding and adding to the aggravation factor. "We already have to be really first in line to get any space in the carry-on bins," Karl said. Danielle Robinson vowed to avoid American, which she had flown in on from college Wednesday. A graduate of Archbishop Mitty High School who plays basketball for the University of Oklahoma, Robinson said packing light is not an option. "I've got my basketball stuff, my other bags," she said. Already she's had to consolidate from two checked bags to one, to avoid American's $25 second-bag fee. Now she's going to favor Southwest or Frontier, she said. Other passengers Wednesday noted that Southwest is the only major carrier these days that lets passengers check up to two bags for free, and the company told the New York Times it was not planning to change. But Gerard Arpey, chief executive of American parent AMR, said in a statement that the airline "cannot afford to sit by hoping for industry and market conditions to improve." The airline industry as a whole lost $2 billion in the first quarter this year, and eight U.S. airlines have filed for bankruptcy protection, the company pointed out. Fewer flights In addition to the new fees, American said it may lay off an undisclosed number of workers and retire 40 to 45 airplanes - mostly MD-80s and some Airbus A300s - plus another 35 to 40 regional jets. Those cutbacks will amount to a 10 to 11 percent reduction in flights handled by American, although the company didn't specify where those flights would originate. But San Jose is likely to be affected, said Ed Nelson, director of air service development at the airport. American has 29 daily non-stop flights from San Jose to Texas, Chicago and Southern California, including MD-80s and regional jets. "If an airline is reducing that many flights, it should affect us," Nelson said. He noted, though, that most of the daily American flights out of San Jose are full - which might make them less likely to be cut. Although some airlines, including Delta and Northwest, said Wednesday they have no immediate plans to follow American's fee, airline consultant Raphael Bejar figures they will do so in due time - just as numerous discount carriers in Europe have done. "I expect all the legacy carriers in the U.S. will do the same," said Bejar, chief executive of Paris-based consultant Airsavings. That's a scary notion for Mia Munson, a hotel program manager from Denison, Texas, who arrived Wednesday in San Jose on American. Noting that food prices, gas prices and even college tuition are all spiking, she asked: "Where does it stop?" >On 17/05/08 16:37, in article T0CXj.4168$7k7.1369@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Päy toilets are next. After which they will charge you by >your weight. Right you cretin. All the airlines should go bankrupt and out of business so cheap idiots like you that are unwilling to pay for what your transportation costs can be satisfied. On 22/05/08 13:48, in article 48355d64.54338574@news20.forteinc.com, "John Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Päy toilets are next. After which they will charge you by >> your weight. > Right you cretin. All the airlines should go bankrupt and out of > business so cheap idiots like you that are unwilling to pay for what > your transportation costs can be satisfied. I prefer traveling Air France exactly because they don't get cheap. They still feed you on European flights if they are long enough (Paris-Athens). And they make a profit. The crisis right now is in fuel costs and that even got to Air France their last quarter. We just returned from a trip, Paris-NY-Miami-Paris. Since AF does not provide service it was less expensive ($1000 total) to take American, which functions OK on the international flights (they feed you, although want money for the wine). Since we only had one bag each there was not problem with them. What is simply true is that the quality of flights within the US is generally poor. The historical push by the "great unwashed" like yourself, was for the ever cheaper flight, in which the old law of capitalism, "bad pushes out good" has prevailed and led to a progressively lower level of service. I admit I prefer the train (in France) and preferred the passenger boats when the operated (we made 15 crossings on the SS France in the 1960s and 1970s) until they went out of service. It was a time and a way of traveling in which "getting there" was more the half the fun. >On 22/05/08 13:48, in article 48355d64.54338574@news20.forteinc.com, "John >Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >They still feed you on European flights if they are long enough >(Paris-Athens). And they make a profit. That's what happens when you overcharge people cretin. >The crisis right now is in fuel costs and that even got to >Air France their last quarter. Gee, big surprise. No different that anyone else. >We just returned from a trip, Paris-NY-Miami-Paris. Since >AF does not provide service it was less expensive ($1000 total) >to take American, which functions OK on the international flights >(they feed you, although want money for the wine). Since we only >had one bag each there was not problem with them. Get the point now genius? >What is simply true is that the quality of flights within the US >is generally poor. The historical push by the "great unwashed" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >was a time and a way of traveling in which "getting there" >was more the half the fun. Bullshit. You simply get what you pay for cretin. Pay more you get more. Ever try business class genius? > On 22/05/08 13:48, in article 48355d64.54338574@news20.forteinc.com, "John > Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The crisis right now is in fuel costs and that even got to > Air France their last quarter. Air France won't fly you the distance of SFO-MIA-SJU and back for $264, which is what I paid for a trip earlier this week. So, yes, if food means that much to you, complain about US airlines not serving it. I prefer the low prices. On 23/05/08 9:22, in article erSdnVoHCtc87avVnZ2dnUVZ_qbinZ2d@comcast.com, > Air France won't fly you the distance of SFO-MIA-SJU and back for $264, > which is what I paid for a trip earlier this week. Obviously, they don't fly in the USA. But as I will underline again, "bad drives out good" in the air travel industry. The goal of obtaining the ever cheaper ticket corrodes the quality of life. So what you have seen progressively seeing is the market dictatorship of the great unwashed. > So, yes, if food means that much to you, complain about US > airlines not serving it. Food is not the only issue. Certainly on overnight flights one needs more leg and turning room that provided now. I have read somewhere that the food costs for the airline are relatively small, the order of $5-10. The costs per meal was $4.91 in 2000. Big deal, you ticket would have been another $15 higher if food was included. When I took the NY-Miami flight two weeks ago, my deli sandwich I had to buy in the JFK cost over $6. > I prefer the low prices. I prefer a civilized society in which the exchanges between the seller and buyer satisfies both parties. We know that the degree of unsatisfaction of passengers is constantly rising. The airlines are also not happy, they are losing money. If this combined system was a human a doctor would conclude that the situation is pathological. It is sick and getting sicker. "Earl Evleth" <evleth@wanadoo.fr> wrote .... > I prefer a civilized society in which the exchanges between > the seller and buyer satisfies both parties. We know that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > would conclude that the situation is pathological. It is > sick and getting sicker. Why, Earl, have you not looked at First or Business? Civilization is but a bulkhead away. After all, you don't consider price as the most important factor in travel (but were quick to save that $1,000 flying AA). Face it, Old Top, you're naught but a gassy windbag. If travel aboard SS FRANCE and her contemporary competitors out flirting with the Blue Riband was still realistic and cost-efficient, there would be daily sailings from Cherbourg, Southhampton and the Hudson River piers. The only current "Transatlantic" offerings, "repositioning" evolutions involving cruise ships, are essentially reduced priced "throw-ins" by the owners to produce some revenue for a necessary ship's movement, usually sailing well below capacity with reduced catering staffs. Sadly, for those of us enamored of the great liners, FRANCE represents an age as archaic as that of Brunel's GREAT EASTERN. Whether we're talking about Euros, Francs or Dollars, the comparable cost of economy air travel is so much less than it was 40 years ago as to be astounding. As for comparing US domestic air service with flights within Europe, you may get a meal between Paris and Athens on a "flag" carrier like AF, but I'll take a cheap seat on a budget airline, priced below cheap US tickets because of volume, but with creature comforts and appeal pretty close to "Greyhound" standards, the same bus-like quality with which you are served in the US. Yes, the US legacies are losing money on their domestic service, their coffers leaking through a combination of misadventures aggravated by soaring costs of their lifeblood, Jet A, but most would claim that their international flights remain "profit centers". I don't see financial statements of the European "legacies", but I suspect that none of them would be able to make ends meet on the profits from flights within Western Europe. The fates of KLM and SwissAir are history, the names preserved but the old identities submerged in new corporate shrouds. Then there's the new Ottoman Empire, the sick man of Europe, "Ill-atalia"... I checked this morning, and could have with a single pass on the web, "booked" at ticket to a well known European capital, eaten a leisurely breakfast, the grits and sausage in red-state flyover MidAmerica, far from NYC or Miami, packed a bag, driven (Well, it would have taken $50 worth of gas, but I have a "free parking and shuttle" deal with an airport-gate hotel) two and a half hours, a large relaxed mug of coffee and a Beethoven CD or two, to an airport to board a midafternoon departure that puts me in Europe after a decent breakfast (and long before folks here would have started their breakfasts). The price....$372, "special" deal, but only $20 more (unadjusted for inflation - adjusted today's ticket's only a fraction of the price of the old one) than the price I paid for a ticket on a series of long, slow all day/all night and then some flights in 1959. Now, back then, the "stewardesses" wore little hats and white gloves for boarding (and the Economy Class seats may have had a couple of inches more pitch), but I'll leave the haberdashery for you, the white gloves for ceremonies and pallbearing, and deal with my crowded creaky knees for 8 hours at the current price. Pay for booze? Shucks, I don't use shampoo, brush my teeth with baking soda, and mouthwash is sold even within the Debalkanized borders of the new EU, so I can use my Ziploc Baggie to carry 3 miniatures of "Auld Popskull" aboard. The water's still free. TMO On 23/05/08 16:39, in article 4836d5e7$0$5702$4c368faf@roadrunner.com, > Why, Earl, have you not looked at First or Business? Civilization is but a > bulkhead away. They are rip offs, so I don't look into them. If you look at the space occupied by the passenger, you get maybe twice the space for 10 times the price. > If travel aboard SS FRANCE and her contemporary competitors out flirting > with the Blue Riband was still realistic and cost-efficient, there would be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > enamored of the great liners, FRANCE represents an age as archaic as that of > Brunel's GREAT EASTERN. Yes and archaic was better. I figured the economics at the time. It was also subsidized by the French taxpayer to the extent that we passengers paid half the real price. > Whether we're talking about Euros, Francs or Dollars, the comparable cost of > economy air travel is so much less than it was 40 years ago as to be > astounding. As for comparing US domestic air service with flights within > Europe, you may get a meal between Paris and Athens on a "flag" carrier like > AF, AF no longer is a flag carrier and they made a billion euros last year. The fuel costs are now eating that up and they lost money this quarter. Clearly fossil fuels are a non-sustainable source of fuels for land-air and sea transport and not much else is available. Technology might not lead man out of this blind alley. > but I'll take a cheap seat on a budget airline, priced below cheap US > tickets because of volume, I have long ago gotten passed the "cheapie solution" but of various inconviencies. This summer we will, as we do every summer, take out September vacation in Greece and the main criteria are flight times. We take the AF flight at about 9:30 in the morning (late enough to avoid having to get to the airport at some ridiculous hour) to Athenes which allows us to taxi to the boat at the port and and take a boat to Aegina and arrive before 6PM. The return is on a flight which leaves Athenes in the evening at 19:30, allow us to reverse the process which otherwise would require us taking a hotel in Athenes. I checked the prices today, about 300 euros each, which is OK with us. One pays a little more for the 9:30 departure. There is a family joke, a NY cartoonist once did one on a man chasing a turkey around the living room with his wife nagging him "oven ready turkey costs a little bit more but oven ready turkey is worth a little bit more". Convenience all that way, if it costs an extra hundred dollars so what. Most have enough money for that. We have, at times taken the day flight back from the US (e.g. Boston => London) to avoid loosing a night's sleep on the place, staying in London for a few days and taking the TGV back to Paris. Now the TGV is an advance is civilized traveling, which air travel no longer is. It is marching backwards. And the people searching for ever cheaper flights are leading that march. > but with creature comforts and appeal pretty > close to "Greyhound" standards, the same bus-like quality with which you are > served in the US. In looking at the junk sold in the "Sky Mall" magazine of American Airlines I thought that one could well judge the level of a particular civilisation by that kind of junk merchandising. So the junk travel is also sold. > The fates of KLM and SwissAir are history, the names > preserved but the old identities submerged in new corporate shrouds. Then > there's the new Ottoman Empire, the sick man of Europe, "Ill-atalia"... KLM provided, because they hooked up with AF, with good service to Ghana. They even allowed a two 44 pound each bag limit, which helped us in moving books for a library we are helping down there. Africans travel with a lot of baggage, but some others too. >On 23/05/08 16:39, in article 4836d5e7$0$5702$4c368faf@roadrunner.com, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >occupied by the passenger, you get maybe twice the space for 10 times >the price. Meaning, as I said, the fat a.s moron is too cheap to pay for what he claims he wants. His IQ is somewhere about 10. >> If travel aboard SS FRANCE and her contemporary competitors out flirting >> with the Blue Riband was still realistic and cost-efficient, there would be [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >subsidized by the French taxpayer to the extent that we passengers paid >half the real price. Which is really what a cretin like you wants, you cheap a.s. >> Whether we're talking about Euros, Francs or Dollars, the comparable cost of >> economy air travel is so much less than it was 40 years ago as to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >AF no longer is a flag carrier and they made a billion euros last year. The >fuel costs are now eating that up and they lost money this quarter. Gee, like I said, just like everyone else. >Clearly fossil fuels are a non-sustainable source of fuels for land-air >and sea transport and not much else is available. Technology might >not lead man out of this blind alley. With morons like you, who would care? >> but I'll take a cheap seat on a budget airline, priced below cheap US >> tickets because of volume, >I have long ago gotten passed the "cheapie solution" but of various >inconviencies. This summer we will, as we do every summer, take out [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >today, about 300 euros each, which is OK with us. One pays a little more >for the 9:30 departure. Someone gives a sh.t? >There is a family joke, a NY cartoonist once did one on a man chasing >a turkey around the living room with his wife nagging him "oven ready >turkey costs a little bit more but oven ready turkey is worth a little >bit more". YOU'RE the family joke. >Convenience all that way, if it costs an extra hundred dollars >so what. Most have enough money for that. We have, at times taken the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >which air travel no longer is. It is marching backwards. And the people >searching for ever cheaper flights are leading that march. Sure they are. That's why cheapo airlines are going out of business one after the other. >> but with creature comforts and appeal pretty >> close to "Greyhound" standards, the same bus-like quality with which you are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I thought that one could well judge the level of a particular civilisation >by that kind of junk merchandising. So the junk travel is also sold. Yeah, they should be measuring it by the number of fat a.s morons like you that they contain. >> The fates of KLM and SwissAir are history, the names >> preserved but the old identities submerged in new corporate shrouds. Then [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >books for a library we are helping down there. Africans travel with a lot >of baggage, but some others too. Yeah, genius, well I just took two flights on them today from Spain to Sweden and all I got was two worldclass crappy sandwiches. Giving away all your cartoons to Africans are you? >On 23/05/08 9:22, in article erSdnVoHCtc87avVnZ2dnUVZ_qbinZ2d@comcast.com, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >quality of life. So what you have seen progressively seeing is the >market dictatorship of the great unwashed. Then why don't you just pay for business class and shut up you cheap moron? >> So, yes, if food means that much to you, complain about US >> airlines not serving it. > >Food is not the only issue. Certainly on overnight flights >one needs more leg and turning room that provided now. Lose weight you fat a.s or buy two seats. >I have read somewhere that the food costs for the airline >are relatively small, the order of $5-10. The costs per >meal was $4.91 in 2000. Big deal, you ticket would have >been another $15 higher if food was included. When I >took the NY-Miami flight two weeks ago, my deli sandwich >I had to buy in the JFK cost over $6. Never heard of labor costs have you genius? >> I prefer the low prices. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >would conclude that the situation is pathological. It is >sick and getting sicker. This cretin as always is full of crap and completely ignorant. He is too cheap to pay for what he claims he wants so he just whines and moans like a baby. And too stupid to simply buy and bring on his own food too. >Then why don't you just pay for business class and shut up you cheap >moron? Do you fly business or first on a regular basis and pay for your own tickets? >>Then why don't you just pay for business class and shut up you cheap >>moron? > >Do you fly business or first on a regular basis and pay for your own >tickets? Yes, but what has that to do with anything? If you want extras, you pay for them just like when you buy a car, TV or anything else. You want it, you pay for it and you get it. >Yes, but what has that to do with anything? If you want extras, you >pay for them just like when you buy a car, TV or anything else. You >want it, you pay for it and you get it. Then you must be fortunate enough to be quite wealthy. To pay the cost of first or business and fly frequently requires an income much higher than the vast majority of people have. >>Yes, but what has that to do with anything? If you want extras, you >>pay for them just like when you buy a car, TV or anything else. You [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >of first or business and fly frequently requires an income much higher >than the vast majority of people have. So what? You want more you pay more. Simple as that and Evleth who can't get that through his non-existent brain, largely because he is one of the freeloaders of life who think he should get whatever his minscule cerebrum cooks up and thinks it should get. Completely stupid, but that's him. >>>Yes, but what has that to do with anything? If you want extras, you >>>pay for them just like when you buy a car, TV or anything else. You [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > So what? It comes down to credibility. People asking for advice need to now if they can rely on someone's answers. Someone who claims to make multiple trips in First class on their own money, but who alos appears to do a 'normal' job, rightly of wrongly, comes across as not credible. tim On 26/05/08 11:48, in article 69vfb6F349ur8U1@mid.individual.net, "tims next home" <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > People asking for advice need to now if they can rely on someone's answers. > Someone who claims to make multiple trips in First class on their own money, > but who alos appears to do a 'normal' job, rightly of wrongly, comes across > as not credible. John Kulp posted for a long time using jbk@piasystems.com. It is not possible to do an accurate research on where he is in his career now. He does not use piasystems in his address now. I think he ran a small outfit (www.piasystems.com/ContactUs.htm) with revenues below l million and a couple of people http://center.spoke.com/info/c5vJX99/piasystemscom I saw a CV on him once but who trusts those fictional documents? About a year ago he posted "Our office has surplus furniture, etc. for sale which you can see at www.piasystems.com/movingsale. Take a look there might be something you need at a great price!" The total value of the sale is probably not over $1000. For a money-bags type, why grovel for a $1000? This indicates he was probably not flying lst class a year ago! The posting gives the image of folding up his piasystems tent. I have not researched whether piasystems still exists? Perhaps John will reveal the truth. But one question always comes up. Why post extensively on the news groups at all? If one is retired, it occupies time just screwing around. If one is unemployed, same thing. But frankly, for a professionally active person it is a waste of time and indicates probably that one is addicted to the news groups and wasting valuable time. So Kulp may have traveled in style at one time in his life but probably is not now. He has an attitude problem, that comes across in his postings. It must have shown up professionally too. A reasonable analysis... Waiving the right to remain silent, Earl Evleth <evleth@wanadoo.fr> said: > John Kulp posted for a long time using jbk@piasystems.com. It is not > possible to do an accurate research on where he is in his career [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > is not now. He has an attitude problem, that comes across in his > postings. It must have shown up professionally too.  SignatureLarry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail "A lack of common sense is now considered a disability, with all the privileges that this entails." On 26/05/08 18:34, in article Xns9AAA60EE81C72thefrogprince@69.28.186.120, > A reasonable analysis... Indeed, John may be unemployed at this time. Merely a possibility, mind you. I am sure he is not among the homeless. Waiving the right to remain silent, Earl Evleth <evleth@wanadoo.fr> said: > On 26/05/08 18:34, in article Xns9AAA60EE81C72thefrogprince@69.28.186.120, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Merely a possibility, mind you. I am sure he > is not among the homeless. The web site referenced, and its contents, doesn't suggest a level of business that would pay regularly for First Class travel. But, like some others, he may be the lucky recipient of other income. It wouldn't be the first time that someone running a mediocre, or failing business actually lives extremely well off a fat trust fund... SignatureLarry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail "A lack of common sense is now considered a disability, with all the privileges that this entails." >Waiving the right to remain silent, Earl Evleth <evleth@wanadoo.fr> said: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >wouldn't be the first time that someone running a mediocre, or failing >business actually lives extremely well off a fat trust fund... You and Evleth are in a close race for moron of the year. Neither of you have the faintest idea what you are talking about. LOL. Waiving the right to remain silent, john_kulp@hotmail.com (John Kulp) said: >>Waiving the right to remain silent, Earl Evleth <evleth@wanadoo.fr> >>said: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > You and Evleth are in a close race for moron of the year. Neither of > you have the faintest idea what you are talking about. LOL. What that I said is untrue about some people..? SignatureLarry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail "A lack of common sense is now considered a disability, with all the privileges that this entails." >On 26/05/08 18:34, in article Xns9AAA60EE81C72thefrogprince@69.28.186.120, > >> A reasonable analysis... > >Indeed, John may be unemployed at this time. I retired moron and have all I need to live on which is more than you can say. >Merely a possibility, mind you. I am sure he >is not among the homeless. Why would I join you? >A reasonable analysis... For a cretin that knows nothing yes. >Waiving the right to remain silent, Earl Evleth <evleth@wanadoo.fr> said: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> is not now. He has an attitude problem, that comes across in his >> postings. It must have shown up professionally too. >On 26/05/08 11:48, in article 69vfb6F349ur8U1@mid.individual.net, "tims next >home" <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >I saw a CV on him once but who trusts those fictional documents? You know nothing about me or anything else you babbling idiot. >About a year ago he posted "Our office has surplus furniture, etc. for sale >which you can see at www.piasystems.com/movingsale. Take a look there might [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >not researched whether piasystems still exists? Perhaps John will >reveal the truth. To some 4F fatass like you? It's none of you business what I do or don't do. >But one question always comes up. Why post extensively on the news groups >at all? If one is retired, it occupies time just screwing around. If one is >unemployed, same thing. But frankly, for a professionally active person it >is a waste of time and indicates probably that one is addicted to the >news groups and wasting valuable time. Great description of yourself 4F. >So Kulp may have traveled in style at one time in his life but probably >is not now. He has an attitude problem, that comes across in his postings. >It must have shown up professionally too. Talk about the fat pot calling the kettle black. And I just returned first class today from Stockholm so stick that up your fat retarded a.s. >To some 4F fatass like you? It's none of you business what I do or >don't do. I wonder how he knows what someone's draft status was and what they look like. >>To some 4F fatass like you? It's none of you business what I do or >>don't do. > >I wonder how he knows what someone's draft status was and what they >look like. A. his wife posted it once B. I saw some pictures of him once online On 28/05/08 3:41, in article 51ep34hm0smg91ho6olrm1pmfrp3ptn633@4ax.com, >> To some 4F fatass like you? It's none of you business what I do or >> don't do. > > I wonder how he knows what someone's draft status was and what they > look like. It came at one time years ago. I suffered from the same medical problem Rush Limbaugh did! This was during the Korean war period. I got examined by military doctors and since the surgical wound from the operation I had had had not healed properly (indeed I had a 2nd operation later) the army would not touch me. However, unlike Cheney I never sought a draft deferment nor, like Bush, dodged the service. Next, I think I will leave a longer shadow in history than Kulp. There is little on him on the internet to judge him independently. Newgroup postings are not really independent pieces of information. My professional shadow can be accessed by googling my professional name "EM Evleth" (2500 hits) while John B. Kulp yields a meager 6 references. His one time company, PIA Systems Corporation appears gone from history and he had a going out business yard sale about a year ago, a mere $1000 worth of junk office furniture. And yes, my photos are available on the internet, including my tongue in cheek claim to be a captain of a sailing boat! http://homepage.mac.com/evleth/PhotoAlbum7.html What does Kulp look like? Judging from the threats he gets on the internet it is wise he does not post his photo. Personally, I have no fear, my name, address and photo are a matter of public record. I don't do yard sales, however. >On 28/05/08 3:41, in article 51ep34hm0smg91ho6olrm1pmfrp3ptn633@4ax.com, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >operation I had had had not healed properly (indeed I had a 2nd operation >later) the army would not touch me. Gee, so you're a drug abuser too? >However, unlike Cheney I never sought a draft deferment nor, like Bush, >dodged the service. No, they didn't want you at all and I'm sure you volunteered to do equivalent alternative service didn't you? >Next, I think I will leave a longer shadow in history than Kulp. There >is little on him on the internet to judge him independently. Newgroup [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and he had a going out business yard sale about a year ago, a mere $1000 >worth of junk office furniture. It's gone nowhere sh.t for brains, we simply shut down an office we no longer needed, but since you knowledge of business is equivalent to that of airlines, absolute drivel, it's not surprising you drivel on here as well. And I just googled for "sh.t for brains" and got 1.9 million hits so you're well on the way to the recognition you richly deserve. Who needs some obscure chemical polluter anyway? >And yes, my photos are available on the internet, including my >tongue in cheek claim to be a captain of a sailing boat! > http://homepage.mac.com/evleth/PhotoAlbum7.html Now the egomaniac blathers, as if anyone cares. When he's not plagiarizing everyone else's work that is. >What does Kulp look like? Judging from the threats he gets on the >internet it is wise he does not post his photo. Personally, I have >no fear, my name, address and photo are a matter of public record. So is your criminal record probably. And threats? From who sh.t for brains? I've never seen a single one. It would come from a 4Fer like you, though, if it existed, hiding behind their little browsers. >I don't do yard sales, however. You have nothing anyone wants. On 28/05/08 13:58, in article 483d46eb.72831345@news20.forteinc.com, "John Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: > And threats? From who sh.t for > brains? I've never seen a single one. YOU RESPONDED TO IT! On Mon, 26 May 2008 23:03:35 -0700, it was posted >>I bet you'd crap your pants if I showed up at your door, you f.cking >>asswipe. Say what you want online, but cower if ever called on it. >>I will be in your neck of the woods in the near future. If I were you, >>I'd get a securrity system and bodyguards. AND YOU POSTED A RESPONSE on May 27th saying >He's just another browser coward playing with himself (herself? >itself?) as he (she? it?) posts his (her? its?) drivel. Ignore him >(her? it?) That is a sufficiently serious threat to make an official complaint. You can post one via the FBI (www.ic3.gov). The posting certainly addresses the issue that your own postings are provocative. I personally have never received as aggressive a posting actually threatening violence. >On 28/05/08 13:58, in article 483d46eb.72831345@news20.forteinc.com, "John >Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >YOU RESPONDED TO IT! You're a blithering idiot who can't even read. This was directed at someone else you moron not me, but then you're too stupid to be able to even comprehend that. >On Mon, 26 May 2008 23:03:35 -0700, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>itself?) as he (she? it?) posts his (her? its?) drivel. Ignore him >>(her? it?) See where I am saying ignore him moron. I was talking to the guy that he was responding. Your unending stupidity once again shown to all. You were really 4F for mental incompetence weren't you? >That is a sufficiently serious threat to make an official complaint. >You can post one via the FBI (www.ic3.gov). Just what a 4F coward like you would do isn't it? >The posting certainly addresses the issue that your own postings >are provocative. I personally have never received as aggressive >a posting actually threatening violence. Neither have I you blithering idiot. On 28/05/08 13:58, in article 483d46eb.72831345@news20.forteinc.com, "John Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Next, I think I will leave a longer shadow in history than Kulp. There >> is little on him on the internet to judge him independently. Newgroup [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It's gone nowhere sh.t for brains, we simply shut down an office we no > longer needed, AND HAD A YARD SALE. Yet in your advertisement of the sale, you said "moving". You posted "Our office has surplus furniture, etc. for sale which you can see at www.piasystems.com/movingsale. Take a look there might be something you need at a great price! Obviously to get the best price you did not say "going out of business". Why shut down an office? No business. Customers finally got your number. You have, John, too much of an "attitude" problem to have been a success. > And I just googled for "sh.t for brains" and got 1.9 > million hits so you're well on the way to the recognition you richly > deserve. One only gets 200,000 hits for "sh.t for brains" alone. So you exaggerated. As usual. Only you use the expression with regard to me. You will notice that I remain polite in these exchanges. >On 28/05/08 13:58, in article 483d46eb.72831345@news20.forteinc.com, "John >Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >AND HAD A YARD SALE. You don't even know the meaning of the words sh.t for brains. Just how do you have a yard sale in an offie building cretin? >Yet in your advertisement of the sale, you said "moving". > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >www.piasystems.com/movingsale. Take a look there might be something > you need at a great price! Know what surplus means sh.t for brains? >Obviously to get the best price you did not say "going out of business". Obviously, you have sh.t for brains. Go look at the website and tell me we went out of business moron. Not that I care what you think. You can't even comprehend plain English. >Why shut down an office? No business. Customers finally got your number. We no longer needed it moron. We moved stupid. >You have, John, too much of an "attitude" problem to have been a success. Right, as if a j.rkoff like you has any clue. I made more in a year than you made in your entire life with your chemical pollution, so I just laugh at you cretin. >> And I just googled for "sh.t for brains" and got 1.9 >> million hits so you're well on the way to the recognition you richly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >As usual. Only you use the expression with regard to me. You will notice >that I remain polite in these exchanges. Because you have sh.t for brains, endlessly posting stupid posts like this. And I got 1900000 hits. You obviously don't know how to use a search engine either, which should surprise no one since you can't read. >>>>Yes, but what has that to do with anything? If you want extras, you >>>>pay for them just like when you buy a car, TV or anything else. You [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >It comes down to credibility. Nonsense. The only point is that it is available if someone wants to pay for it and not whine like Evleth does about economy. Period. >People asking for advice need to now if they can rely on someone's answers. >Someone who claims to make multiple trips in First class on their own money, >but who alos appears to do a 'normal' job, rightly of wrongly, comes across >as not credible. You have no idea what I do so you can't judge anything. Which is irrelevant to the subject anyway. On 25/05/08 3:26, in article 40gh34l560a2hs3vf15jnt2bft9pa3s5s0@4ax.com, > Do you fly business or first on a regular basis and pay for your own > tickets? There is no way to verify a claim that one does or does not take business or first class. 0r even takes a plane. We take or do not take a person's word. Kulp has a long record of stalking and insulting statements so his word is not reliable in any case. >On 25/05/08 3:26, in article 40gh34l560a2hs3vf15jnt2bft9pa3s5s0@4ax.com, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >word. Kulp has a long record of stalking and insulting statements so >his word is not reliable in any case. And you have the longest record of all in posting complete and utter bullshit, just like this, so no one would even both asking the question of you cretin. On 25/05/08 16:33, in article 48397870.27175185@news20.forteinc.com, "John Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: > Kulp has a long record of stalking and insulting statements so >> his word is not reliable in any case. > > ----you cretin. My point proven. >On 25/05/08 16:33, in article 48397870.27175185@news20.forteinc.com, "John >Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >My point proven. The one on the top of your head cretin? >There is no way to verify a claim that one does or does not take business >or first class. 0r even takes a plane. We take or do not take a person's >word. Kulp has a long record of stalking and insulting statements so >his word is not reliable in any case. I'm getting that impression. >>There is no way to verify a claim that one does or does not take business >>or first class. 0r even takes a plane. We take or do not take a person's >>word. Kulp has a long record of stalking and insulting statements so >>his word is not reliable in any case. > >I'm getting that impression. Then that would make you a match for Evelth the Idiot then. > On 17/05/08 16:37, in article T0CXj.4168$7k7.1369@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Päy toilets are next. After which they will charge you by > your weight. I think that passengers over a certain width should be charged a surcharge, i.e. 100%, and be given a second seat. This would help other passengers too. But charging by weight isn't a bad idea either, i.e. they can determine your optimal weight by your height, and charge a surcharge for every pound that over. This would also encourage people to lose weight. Fuel usage goes up with weight, so this would be reasonable. The airline also loses cargo capacity when they can't add more weight of cargo due to overweight passengers. I remember when MIA used to have pay toilets. There'd be one free toilet at the end that you could wait for, or you could pay a dime. Airlines probably would have to provide one free toilet, but on a large plane with four or more toilets, making one free and the rest pay, would be a way of raising some revenue. On the down side, savvy flyers might decide to bring their own if the charge is too high, i.e. "http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___80666" or "http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___21229". What American is doing with charging for a first piece of checked luggage, while at the same time scrapping 75 planes, and laying off thousands of employees, makes it pretty clear that they realize that leisure travelers are simply not going to be willing to pay the fares it takes to be profitable. Airline travel will slowly become more for the wealthy. However unlike in other countries, there isn't much of a train network to replace the airlines. On 22/05/08 16:45, in article fCfZj.2$Ri.0@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com, "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote: > I think that passengers over a certain width should be charged a > surcharge, i.e. 100%, and be given a second seat. ` This is for the obese, no problem. But--- The problem over the years is that normal people have a problem, and there is the continual problem of sharing an arm rest with a stranger. Also a normal 170 pound male will have a shoulder problem with another. My wife really objects at always (she feels) getting a middle seat in a three seat configuration. > This would help other > passengers too. But charging by weight isn't a bad idea either, The problem is making the check procedure in procedure lengthy. They have introduced electonic tickets to cut costs on check in. The charging for a bag will be done how? In a recent trip from Paris the US and back from Miami, I found check in with American easy in Paris but incredibly slow in Miami when actually few people were checking in in Miami. It was slow slow slow. Charging for this and that and billing it will be a problem in the US. > I remember when MIA used to have pay toilets. I have never encountered it. Who is MIA? > What American is doing with charging for a first piece of checked > luggage, while at the same time scrapping 75 planes, and laying off [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wealthy. However unlike in other countries, there isn't much of a train > network to replace the airlines. Basically, I rarely travel in the US anymore. for years we met our daughter in the Caribbean with her flying form the US and we from France. We always fly schedules and Air France provided good service to the French Caribbean islands, and local airlines can hook you up to other places. My view is that currently only flights in the US are really unpleasant. And now they will get no better. >On 22/05/08 16:45, in article fCfZj.2$Ri.0@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com, "SMS" ><scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >This is for the obese, no problem. No, it's for fatheads like you too. >But--- > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >My wife really objects at always (she feels) getting a middle >seat in a three seat configuration. Poor her. Tell her to grow up and face life like an adult like everyone else. >> This would help other >> passengers too. But charging by weight isn't a bad idea either, Of course not. You're such a genius that as well as you general incompetence, you know how to run an airline too. >The problem is making the check procedure in procedure lengthy. >They have introduced electonic tickets to cut costs on check >in. The charging for a bag will be done how? By charging for the bag idiot. >In a recent trip from Paris the US and back from Miami, I >found check in with American easy in Paris but incredibly >slow in Miami when actually few people were checking in >in Miami. It was slow slow slow. Charging for this and that >and billing it will be a problem in the US. Sure, they'll all probably fold as a result. >> I remember when MIA used to have pay toilets. > >I have never encountered it. Who is MIA? An ABBA song. >> What American is doing with charging for a first piece of checked >> luggage, while at the same time scrapping 75 planes, and laying off [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >to other places. My view is that currently only flights in the >US are really unpleasant. And now they will get no better. Your complete ignorance, as usual, is overwhelming. You have no clue what you're talking about. > >In a recent trip from Paris the US and back from Miami, I > >found check in with American easy in Paris but incredibly > >slow in Miami when actually few people were checking in > >in Miami. It was slow slow slow. Charging for this and that > >and billing it will be a problem in the US. Friends don't let friends fly through Miami... On 23/05/08 13:57, in article kurtullman-FFEF27.07571623052008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote: > Friends don't let friends fly through Miami... What choice does one have? If you are flying from South Florida internationally it is mostly from Miami. Nationally one can use Fort Lauderdale but the flight access is more limited even nationally. Anyway, I find the airport chaotic. On arriving we had a hell of a time getting a rental car van pickup just outside. The signs were not evident as to where to go. I was wondering when the expression "getting there is half the fun" was introduced. I suspect it had to do with passenger boat travel prior to mass air transportation. We liked the SS France so much we took it 15 times to and from Europe in the 1960s-1970s. It was a pleasure. Our first trip (flew) to Europe (we flew into Lisbon) in the early 1960s was exciting, not for the trip but the arrival--it was a whole new world. But quickly flying became a bore and now and ordeal. > On 23/05/08 13:57, in article > kurtullman-FFEF27.07571623052008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Kurt [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > use Fort Lauderdale but the flight access is more limited > even nationally. The overwhelming majority of people in the US are not flying from South Florida. I will amend that to friends don't let friends who don't live in S. Fl fly through Miami (grin). > I was wondering when the expression "getting there is > half the fun" was introduced. I suspect it had to > do with passenger boat travel prior to mass > air transportation. IIRC that was Greyhound's slogan at one time, although I couldn't find it for sure even with a Google. If so, you have to appreciate the added irony.... >On 23/05/08 13:57, in article >kurtullman-FFEF27.07571623052008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Kurt [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >use Fort Lauderdale but the flight access is more limited >even nationally. At least 20 others airports. >Anyway, I find the airport chaotic. On arriving we had a >hell of a time getting a rental car van pickup just outside. >The signs were not evident as to where to go. As expected of a driveling idiot like you. >I was wondering when the expression "getting there is >half the fun" was introduced. I suspect it had to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >not for the trip but the arrival--it was a whole new >world. But quickly flying became a bore and now and ordeal. It was a misprint. The actual saying was "getting her is half the fun." >>On 23/05/08 13:57, in article >>kurtullman-FFEF27.07571623052008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Kurt [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > At least 20 others airports. Do you really believe there are 20 SOUTH Florida airports, besides MIA that have substantialinternational, or even national service? Where would these be? (MCO, TPA, etc are NOT SOUTH FLORIDA) >>>On 23/05/08 13:57, in article >>>kurtullman-FFEF27.07571623052008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Kurt [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >that have substantialinternational, or even national service? >Where would these be? (MCO, TPA, etc are NOT SOUTH FLORIDA) No. He didn't say it had to be from South Florida. He said IF you are flying from there. There are at least 20 airports in the US from which you can fly internationally. On 25/05/08 9:16, in article 4839126c$0$30510$4c368faf@roadrunner.com, "Mr Travel" <mrtravel@a.a> wrote: >> At least 20 others airports. > > Do you really believe there are 20 SOUTH Florida airports, besides MIA > that have substantialinternational, or even national service? > Where would these be? (MCO, TPA, etc are NOT SOUTH FLORIDA) In our particular case we were flying home, back to Paris, after having first passed through NYC and then on to South Florida. I originally proposed with alternative and cheaper connecting flights back through JFK or where ever in the USA. But we hate connecting flights and wanted a direct return. I would have preferred Fort Lauderdale, the airport functions well compared to Miami and is less of a hassle getting in and out of with a rental car. The total savings of using a connection flight were significant, although I have forgotten how much. Over $100 for the $1000 we actually paid each for the Paris-NYC-Miami-Paris trip. The airlines know that some of us will pay more to avoid a 14-15 hour trip in lieu of 9 hours, as well as the anxiety of "will we make the connection". In fact, the proposed of connection flights which must cost the airlines, overall, more in fuel per passenger transported, I assume they have empty seats to fill for the trip to Europe so they have a per plane savings. Still this overuse of connecting flights seems to be an American affliction. Flying to and from the USA or within the USA has become sufficiently painful for some to just give up the idea. I had not been back for a couple of years. The main travel shock, however, was not being able to find a reasonable hotel in NYC for under $300 a night. Fortunately lodgings were much less in Florida but then this is not the season for the snow birds. >On 25/05/08 9:16, in article 4839126c$0$30510$4c368faf@roadrunner.com, "Mr >Travel" <mrtravel@a.a> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I originally proposed with alternative and cheaper >connecting flights back through JFK or where ever in the USA. But you were just a cheap bastard weren't you, like I said? >But we hate connecting flights and wanted a direct return. >I would have preferred Fort Lauderdale, the airport functions well [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >a 14-15 hour trip in lieu of 9 hours, as well as the anxiety of >"will we make the connection". The fatass hated connecting so much he willingly did it to save a few bucks because he's a cheap bastard. And then, of course, complains about not getting what he won't pay for. Genius isn't he? >In fact, the proposed of connection flights which must cost >the airlines, overall, more in fuel per passenger transported, >I assume they have empty seats to fill for the trip to Europe >so they have a per plane savings. Still this overuse of connecting >flights seems to be an American affliction. Now the moron is trying to give the airlines advice on how to run themselves. Isn't that a laugh? >Flying to and from the USA or within the USA has become sufficiently >painful for some to just give up the idea. I had not been back for >a couple of years. The main travel shock, however, was not being >able to find a reasonable hotel in NYC for under $300 a night. >Fortunately lodgings were much less in Florida but then this >is not the season for the snow birds. Great. Stay away permanently. Who needs cretins like you anyway? On 25/05/08 16:37, in article 483978e2.27288949@news20.forteinc.com, "John Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: > But you were just a cheap bastard weren't you, like I said? Another nasty response. >On 25/05/08 16:37, in article 483978e2.27288949@news20.forteinc.com, "John >Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> But you were just a cheap bastard weren't you, like I said? > >Another nasty response. And all too true to your endless drivel. On 25/05/08 17:39, in article 48398828.31199121@news20.forteinc.com, "John Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> But you were just a cheap bastard weren't you, like I said? >> >> Another nasty response. > > And all too true to your endless drivel. Ah, drivel about drivel. Congratulations, coco. >On 25/05/08 17:39, in article 48398828.31199121@news20.forteinc.com, "John >Kulp" <john_kulp@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Ah, drivel about drivel. Congratulations, coco. No problem. Just keep endlessly plagiarizing everyone in the world and pretending you know something about something. You don't. You're just a driveling idiot. >>>In a recent trip from Paris the US and back from Miami, I >>>found check in with American easy in Paris but incredibly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Friends don't let friends fly through Miami... Why not? I connected through Miami 7 times in the past 3 weeks without a problem. Other than the dismal showers at the Admiral's Club in E, not to mention the very slow elevators, I have no complaints. > Why not? I connected through Miami 7 times in the past 3 weeks without > a problem. Other than the dismal showers at the Admiral's Club in E, > not to mention the very slow elevators, I have no complaints. They lost luggage both ways to San Juan, the line to check in luggage at MIA was over 45 minutes (and then I had to wait another 10 minutes after I "checked" my luggage at the kiosk to get up to the desk to actually get the baggage tagged and sent on its way), on the arrival it took 90 minutes to get the baggage off the airplane (or at least to baggage claim) with no one around to answer any questions about the hold up. This is just the last of MIA hassles over the last 5 years or so. Also, at least the AA side is in need of a makeover, strikes me as dirty and dingy. You asked (g). >>>>In a recent trip from Paris the US and back from Miami, I >>>>found check in with American easy in Paris but incredibly [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >a problem. Other than the dismal showers at the Admiral's Club in E, >not to mention the very slow elevators, I have no complaints. Well, you have a brain which easily distinguishes you from Evleth. |
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