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Travel Forum / Travel Types / Air Travel / July 2008



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Are US Airlines Trying to Confuse Us?

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Sharkbait - 08 Jul 2008 05:31 GMT
Few airlines are in the business of purposely losing money.  Then again,
we've seen countless CEO's departing distressed enterprises with
multi-million dollar parachutes and lots of cash, which might add to the
demise of the airlines.

So what's different from five years ago or even two or one?  It's the price
of fuel.  Why are few European and Asian airlines in a  panic, when US
airlines are crying the blues?  Simply increase the cost of your seats
relative to the cost of your fuel.  Last man standing wins after you add in
the cost of your labor and equipment and still maintain a reasonable safety
record for everyone who uses your service.

Why confuse us with extra fees for this and that, nickel and diming us to
death, and then tack on your fuel surcharge, baggage charge or whatever you
want to call it today?  Screw your six-dollar sandwiches; they still suck
just like they did before you started charging for them.  Like lemmings,
they follow each other in succession, assessing the same increases that
alienate the traveler.

Charge us for whatever its costs and tack on your margin for the
shareholders for god's sake!  I just want to get from point A to point B
with the least amount of disruption and delay.  The flyer will determine
your fate in the end.

Water seeks its own level.

rg

BTW, I don't believe any US airline currently has an on-time departure
exceeding 25% of their schedules but that is only my guess.  I'm reluctant
to believe anything anyone else proffers.  None of my four segments on AA
during the last month were on time leaving the gate.
Rog' - 08 Jul 2008 09:18 GMT
> BTW, I don't believe any US airline currently has an on-time
> departure exceeding 25% of their schedules but that is only
> my guess.  I'm reluctant to believe anything anyone else proffers.
> None of my four segments on AA during the last month were
> on time leaving the gate.

Anecdotal experience is not valid statistical evidence.  That said,
my recent Jet Blue flight, a full load, had everyone on board and
left gate 10 minutes early yesterday.
Robert Neville - 08 Jul 2008 14:17 GMT
>Simply increase the cost of your seats
>relative to the cost of your fuel.

So I take it economics wasn't your strong suit in school?

As a refresher, airline tickets are very price sensitive. Raising the lowest
fares as little as $5 or $10 will cause that seat to go unsold. The potential
passenger will either go to a competitor who hasn't raised fares or not fly at
all. So instead of increasing the revenue the airline earns on each flight, they
lose even more.
Kurt Ullman - 08 Jul 2008 14:24 GMT
> >Simply increase the cost of your seats
> >relative to the cost of your fuel.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> they
> lose even more.

  Personally, I would suggest that this is much more related to
Psychology than it is to economics. Especially Americans buy on price of
the seat, not the TOTAL cost. Thus, airlines can get away with nickel
and diming (or rather $15 and $50ing) us as long as the seat fair is the
same or cheaper as the next guy on the website. The net payment is
probably about the same, but much of it is hidden.
    As I mentioned earlier, I am inclined to drive anywhere I can get
in 8 hours. In most cases, the door-to-door time is the same or maybe
even less. It is probably cheaper and then I have a car to mess around
with on my off time if I want to leave the hotel and explore.
SMS - 09 Jul 2008 00:16 GMT
>> Simply increase the cost of your seats
>> relative to the cost of your fuel.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> all. So instead of increasing the revenue the airline earns on each flight, they
> lose even more.

This is true. The airlines realize that they're entering a stage where
the "not fly at all" option is being chosen by more travelers, and  are
cutting capacity because they can't continue to sell all the capacity
they have at a price that is acceptable to both parties.

Still, the nickel and diming is extremely annoying. At least Southwest
isn't playing this game.
John Kulp - 09 Jul 2008 02:16 GMT
>>> Simply increase the cost of your seats
>>> relative to the cost of your fuel.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>Still, the nickel and diming is extremely annoying. At least Southwest
>isn't playing this game.

As soon as their fuel hedges run out they will.
John Doe - 08 Jul 2008 14:33 GMT
> airlines are crying the blues?  Simply increase the cost of your seats
> relative to the cost of your fuel.  Last man standing wins after you add in
> the cost of your labor and equipment and still maintain a reasonable safety
> record for everyone who uses your service.

Southwest Airlines has most of its fuel hedged at $55/barrel.  Because
Southwest doesn't need to increase its fares as fast as the others, the
others are caught in a difficult position because if they increase their
publiched fare, more people will flock to Southwest because its
published fares are lower.

So they try to hide fare increases in various other charges that don't
appear when you compare airline fares.
John Kulp - 08 Jul 2008 14:56 GMT
>Few airlines are in the business of purposely losing money.  Then again,
>we've seen countless CEO's departing distressed enterprises with
>multi-million dollar parachutes and lots of cash, which might add to the
>demise of the airlines.

Unfortunately, this is not unique to airlines.  There are lots of
other stupid companies doing this as well.

>So what's different from five years ago or even two or one?  It's the price
>of fuel.  Why are few European and Asian airlines in a  panic, when US
>airlines are crying the blues?  Simply increase the cost of your seats
>relative to the cost of your fuel.  Last man standing wins after you add in
>the cost of your labor and equipment and still maintain a reasonable safety
>record for everyone who uses your service.

There's a lot more than that, but fuel is the main one now.  And a lot
of European and Asian airlines are hurting badly and saying so.  If
you could do what you say, they all would be doing that wouldn't they?
Hardly that simple, when the demand goes down as you raise fares,
which is why they are all reducing capacity as well to match.

>Why confuse us with extra fees for this and that, nickel and diming us to
>death, and then tack on your fuel surcharge, baggage charge or whatever you
>want to call it today?  Screw your six-dollar sandwiches; they still suck
>just like they did before you started charging for them.  Like lemmings,
>they follow each other in succession, assessing the same increases that
>alienate the traveler.

Because, you'd want those surcharges right back if the fuel price
drops wouldn't you?  Then you'd be arguing that they should wouldn't
you?

>Charge us for whatever its costs and tack on your margin for the
>shareholders for god's sake!  I just want to get from point A to point B
>with the least amount of disruption and delay.  The flyer will determine
>your fate in the end.

Like always.  

>Water seeks its own level.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>to believe anything anyone else proffers.  None of my four segments on AA
>during the last month were on time leaving the gate.

Then go tell the government which has routinely been stealing the tax
you pay on every ticket to fund their moronic spending even though it
is specifically to update the ATC systems among other things, leaving
us with the most outdated one in the developed world causing a great
deal of these delays.
 
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