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Travel Forum / Travel Types / Air Travel / November 2005Sticking it to the airlines
Excerpts from http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/business/22vouchers.html Airlines could be in for a passenger revolt against their system for keeping everybody happy if too many bodies show up at the gate. There is a growing sense among customers that the vouchers are not worth the paper they are printed on. The redemption rules can be so confusing that even airline employees do not fully understand them. If too few passengers agree to accept the vouchers, the airlines will have to pay cash compensation to those who are involuntarily bumped. It's one of the few times that consumers have the upper hand. If there are no volunteers, an airline will sweeten the offer, adding upgrades or increasing the value of the certificate. If there are still no takers, it starts turning away passengers, which in airline-speak is called "involuntary denied boarding." That is when passengers strike gold - under an airline contract, the holdouts not only get a seat on the next flight, but also cash compensation. For the first nine months of this year, 460,974 passengers volunteered to give up their seats, and 36,882 passengers were denied boarding outright and given cash compensation because their flights were overbooked. ======================== A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who's been indicted. > Excerpts from > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/business/22vouchers.html > > Airlines could be in for a passenger revolt against their system for > keeping everybody happy if too many bodies show up at the gate. I don't understand the complaints about having to pay $5 or $10 to use a bump cert by phone. In my experience, you save at least that much in taxes by using the dollar value cert. > If too few passengers agree to accept the vouchers Maybe I'm on the wrong flights of late, but every flight I've been on in the past 4-5 years that has asked for volunteers in exchange for a meagre voucher has had their gate agent swamped. They ask for volunteers and two minutes later they're saying "please stop volunteering, we've got everyone we need." Sounds to me like everyone's accepting the vouchers. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada >> If too few passengers agree to accept the vouchers > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Sounds to me like everyone's accepting the vouchers. And why not? Unless everyone on the flight says no, then none of the nay-sayers get anything.  SignatureA: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > > If too few passengers agree to accept the vouchers > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sounds to me like everyone's accepting the vouchers. That's been my experience too. I would love to try out one of those voucher deals, but it seems as if I am never in a position where my schedule allows me to volunteer to be bumped from a flight. Coincidentally, I have a friend who worked for years in the commercial airline industry who recently received a voucher. In fact, she's going to the airport to redeem that voucher today. >> If too few passengers agree to accept the vouchers > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > minutes later they're saying "please stop volunteering, we've got everyone > we need." It must be just the flights that you take. At least every other flight I've been on in the past few years has been overbooked with NO volunteers, when volunteers are requested (multiple times). Luckily, I haven't been involuntarily bumped yet. I'd be really pissed, as I always have essential work waiting that HAS to be done quickly, as soon as my flight lands. So taking a later flight is NOT an option. -Dave >>> If too few passengers agree to accept the vouchers >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >work waiting that HAS to be done quickly, as soon as my flight lands. So >taking a later flight is NOT an option. -Dave So what happens with a weather or mechanical failure delay? You shouldn't schedule yourself that tight. SignatureRich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67 Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L >>It must be just the flights that you take. At least every other flight >>I've [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You shouldn't schedule yourself that tight. My job is rather specialized. When the systems I service go down, I'm often the only person within 5000 miles (literally) that can fix it, and it can't be fixed "over the phone". Oh, and it has to be fixed yesterday, of course. Weather delays and mechanical failure delays are understandable. But try telling the customer that his systems (that he is totally dependent on to run his business) are going to be down another day or longer because the airline refused to seat me in my pre-assigned seat, because the flight was deliberately overbooked by the airline. If it was personal travel, no big deal. But most of the time I fly, I needed to be there 'last week', and I just found out a few hours ago. :) Considering that the airlines are almost totally dependent on business travelers to stay solvent, it's a wonder that there haven't been many multi-billion dollar lawsuits against the airlines YET for involuntary bumping of business travel passengers with pre-assigned seats. I wouldn't schedule myself "that tight", if I had a choice. -Dave >If it was personal travel, no big deal. But most of the time I fly, I >needed to be there 'last week', and I just found out a few hours ago. :) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >bumping of business travel passengers with pre-assigned seats. >I wouldn't schedule myself "that tight", if I had a choice. -Dave Question. Is it possible to buy a ticket directly from the airline with guaranteed seating, even at an extra cost? > Question. Is it possible to buy a ticket directly from the > airline with guaranteed seating, even at an extra cost? If you a platinum frequent flier with that airline, you are pretty well guaranteed a seat on the plane. They'll bump someone off for you. Other than that, the priorities are based on what level frequent flier you are, what fare you paid, and when you bought the ticket. If you paid full fare, you won't get bumped. All this assumes that you arrived at the gate before the cutoff. Later than that, you drop to the bottom of the list, and might already have lost your seat. > > Question. Is it possible to buy a ticket directly from the > > airline with guaranteed seating, even at an extra cost? > > If you a platinum frequent flier with that airline, you are pretty well > guaranteed a seat on the plane. They'll bump someone off for you. True. And in some cases even more. On some airlines the top level frequent flyers can buy a ticket at the last minute on a flight that is already full and they will bump someone else off. >> > Question. Is it possible to buy a ticket directly from the >> > airline with guaranteed seating, even at an extra cost? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >frequent flyers can buy a ticket at the last minute on a flight that is >already full and they will bump someone else off. So I'm taking it that the answer to the question is no. >>> > Question. Is it possible to buy a ticket directly from the >>> > airline with guaranteed seating, even at an extra cost? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > So I'm taking it that the answer to the question is no. The answer is yes. Just stay away from the lowest fare tickets, get to the gate in time, and you will get a seat. > >>It must be just the flights that you take. At least every other flight > >>I've [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > airline refused to seat me in my pre-assigned seat, because the flight was > deliberately overbooked by the airline. this should be just as understandable as weather or mechanical delays. it has nothing to do with you. > >>It must be just the flights that you take. At least every other flight > >>I've [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > airline refused to seat me in my pre-assigned seat, because the flight was > deliberately overbooked by the airline. What you're saying doesn't make any sense. (Not the business urgency, that makes perfect sense and happens quite regularly.) If you buy a day ahead of time then you have to pay full fare. If you pay full fare and show up to the check-in counter on time (an hour or two before the flight depending on the airline's rules) then you will *never* get bumped. And if your service is truly that urgent then your customer's won't have a problem footing the bill for the full fare ticket. > If it was personal travel, no big deal. But most of the time I fly, I > needed to be there 'last week', and I just found out a few hours ago. :) > Considering that the airlines are almost totally dependent on business > travelers to stay solvent, it's a wonder that there haven't been many > multi-billion dollar lawsuits against the airlines YET for involuntary > bumping of business travel passengers with pre-assigned seats. If you read the rules on the ticket you buy the airline warns you that the flight may be over-booked. It's part of the contract you get when you buy a ticket. > I wouldn't schedule myself "that tight", if I had a choice. -Dave >> >>It must be just the flights that you take. At least every other flight >> >>I've [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > >> I wouldn't schedule myself "that tight", if I had a choice. -Dave I am getting the image of a software specialist that is the only person within five thousand miles that can fix an airline reservation system that goes down and the specialist has to be there, in person, but cannot get an airplane ticket because the system is down. Hmmmm. I am beginning to see the reason for Greyhound busssses. > I am getting the image of a software specialist that is the only person > within five thousand miles that can fix an airline reservation system that > goes down and the specialist has to be there, in person, but cannot get an > airplane ticket because the system is down. Hmmmm. I am beginning to see > the reason for Greyhound busssses. Must be that accident on the LA to SF run. .......... >>>>> There is a growing sense among customers that the vouchers are not >>>>> worth the paper they are printed on. The redemption rules can be so >>>>> confusing that even airline employees do not fully understand them. The simplest best value is a 'cash equivalent' voucher. The airline I fly the most tends to offer either a "free ticket" or a $300 voucher for future travel. The $300 voucher is just that--you book a flight, and take $300 off the cost; on ANY flight. The "free ticket" is actually the equivalent to a frequent flyer award ticket--and award space can be near impossible to use on any flight you might actually be interested in TAKING. I watched a family of 4 debate whether to take the $300 or the free ticket a month or so ago, and couldn't restrain myself to jump in and make a recommendation--if they had gone for the "free ticket" they would have certainly been flying on different flights, on different days, and maybe in different months (if they hadn't actually had to throw the "free tickets" away as utterly bookable within the next year). But by taking the $300 they could book a typical fare on any routing they chose (together ,on the same flight--very leasily) and either gotten most of the cost accounted for OR found themselves with a (sometimes hefty) CREDIT that they could use for ANOTHER flight in the future. >>>>>> There is a growing sense among customers that the vouchers are not >>>>>> worth the paper they are printed on. The redemption rules can be so [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > cost accounted for OR found themselves with a (sometimes hefty) CREDIT > that they could use for ANOTHER flight in the future. For years, my travel planning brought me back into DFW in time to catch the evening's last American Eagle back to my home town. Back in the days when a few dollars mattered, I was "playing the market" as it were, for the last flight was routinely overbooked (to insure it would go out full, since a half dozen or so connecting pax would have routinely cancelled or been delayed enroute. For a $300.00 voucher, a ride to a hotel and back, a paid-for night, and a breakfast voucher at the hotel, I was happy to catch the 0930 home. It got to the point that one of the Dallas Station folks at AAEagle wouldn't even ask me to volunteer, simply write down my name. In all honesty, arriving home late and tired was not, back then at least, worth more than $300 and getting home in time for an early lunch. Unfortunately, the designated RON hotels are not what they once were..... TMO <<<<<<It got to the point that one of the Dallas Station folks at AAEagle wouldn't even ask me to volunteer, simply write down my name. That's amazing--being that notorious as a volunteer. I envy you that one! All I get nowadays are the occasional $300 vouchers on NW, but a decade or more back when I travelled less domestically (and only at the peak holidays), I went close to three years flying solely on AA bump money. I remember one sping break in Chicago--n the days when they would keep upping the offer (and give everybody the top amount offered even if you had volunteered for less)--where AA gave a dozen of us $600 travel vouchers. That seemed great, but it turned out that most of those who got the $600 had ALREADY picked up $1200 travel vouchers on the earlier flight, when they needed about 20 volunteers! |
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