Japan - language

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Doug Pearl - 26 Jan 2004 21:05 GMT

Considering a trip to Japan this spring and wondering about language.
For an English speaker in places like Tokyo, Kyoto, Nagano and Nikko,
will it be a battle or not too bad?

I would try to master basic formalities and bring a phrase book, and I
generally can pickup up pronounciation of foreign languages pretty
quickly, but the whole Kanji thing scares me. If I'm in, say, Italy, I
can make an educated guess that a sign saying Farmacia means Pharmacy.
But a sign in Kanji, you get the idea...

Thanks,
Doug

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Alec - 26 Jan 2004 22:38 GMT

> Considering a trip to Japan this spring and wondering about language.
> For an English speaker in places like Tokyo, Kyoto, Nagano and Nikko,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> can make an educated guess that a sign saying Farmacia means Pharmacy.
> But a sign in Kanji, you get the idea...

Tokyo, Kyoto and Nikko (maybe less in Nagano) are popular with foreign
tourists and many signs are in English as well as Japanese (not always
though). While many Japanese people speak good English, they may not be
there when you need them. But almost all tourist attractions provide English
leaflet on demand. Clearly any knowledge of the language will increase your
enjoyment and makes travelling easier, but many people travel to Japan
without any linguistic knowledge and get by nonetheless. Japanese themselves
are very friendly and hospitable and often go out of their way to help
puzzled foreigners. If you are really stuck, try to approach a young person
(student type perhaps) and either speak very slowly or write down in
English. Many find English easier when written down than in speech form
(reflection of how English is taught in schools). There's also a toll-free
number you can call for help in English (0088 224800 9am-5pm).

Alec

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EAC - 27 Jan 2004 04:52 GMT

> Tokyo, Kyoto and Nikko (maybe less in Nagano) are popular with foreign
> tourists and many signs are in English as well as Japanese (not always
> though).

Correct.

> While many Japanese people speak good English,
> they may not be there when you need them.

Correct. Many Japanese knows and speak good English, but most don't.
Words like "Special Guard of Honor" probably doesn't mean anything to
them.

> Japanese themselves are very friendly and hospitable
> and often go out of their way to help puzzled foreigners.

Correct. Just look confused and someone will probably ask you on what
is going on and help you, this is especially true if you're jamming a
queue (like wanting to buy a ticket from a vending machine) trying to
find out on what to do next.

And if you wanted to conversate, like any country, just use the
'Tarzan language'. Talk like Tarzan. Just use simple phrases and so
on, it doesn't have to be complicated, it just have to be enough to be
understand.

Phreases like "Me, Doug", "Me want food", and so on should suffice.

> If you are really stuck, try to approach a young person
> (student type perhaps) and either speak very slowly or write down in
> English.

Correct. This page below describe it nicely on what kind people that
will understand English.

http://members.tripod.com/kanaday/survival.html

> Many find English easier when written down than in speech form
> (reflection of how English is taught in schools).

Yes, the Japanese probably understand more about English grammar than
the average English speakers, but aren't as good in English in real
lufe as the average English speakers.

That will tell you that school is no subtitute for real life
experiences.

> There's also a toll-free
> number you can call for help in English (0088 224800 9am-5pm).

Is it a left over service from the World Cup event a few years ago?

> Alec

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Gerry - 27 Jan 2004 22:07 GMT

> And if you wanted to conversate, like any country, just use the
> 'Tarzan language'. Talk like Tarzan. Just use simple phrases and so
> on, it doesn't have to be complicated, it just have to be enough to be
> understand.
>
> Phreases like "Me, Doug", "Me want food", and so on should suffice.

Now that is funny! Also practicable and duly stolen for future usage...

Signature

First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

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Gerry - 27 Jan 2004 01:03 GMT

If that's your attitude I assume you'll do fine. Just give yourself
plenty of time and ask for help when you need it. Learning just a few
phrases in Japanese will help a lot. By and large with a point and
smile attitude you can accomplish almost anything. By and large, the
people are fantastic.

Signature

First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

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EAC - 27 Jan 2004 04:52 GMT

> Considering a trip to Japan this spring and wondering about language.
> For an English speaker in places like Tokyo, Kyoto, Nagano and Nikko,
> will it be a battle or not too bad?

Well... If you are planning to visit places where most foreigners go,
chances are those places will be very English friendly.

For example, the Shinkansen is very Eigo (English language) friendly,
especially the Tokaido line (that serves city between Tokyo and
Osaka), since that it's uses many times by foreigners (most Japanese
probably don't ride the Shinkansen).

> I would try to master basic formalities and bring a phrase book, and I
> generally can pickup up pronounciation of foreign languages pretty
> quickly, but the whole Kanji thing scares me.
>
> If I'm in, say, Italy, I
> can make an educated guess that a sign saying Farmacia means Pharmacy.

Then I suggest you learned katakana characters. This is a Japanese
characters that used for for phoentic (pronounciation) uses only, and
they're often used to spelled out foreign words.

Here's a nice page that enable you to find the meaning of a Japanese
word or vice versa, just type the word and it will find it for you.

http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/dict

Here's how to say "Pharmacy" in Japanese:

http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PS&L=E&T=pharmacy&WC=none&f
g=r&S=26

http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/fg=r/inline/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PS&L=E&T=pharmacy

If you got Mac OS X and Safari, I'm sure that the site will look just
fine if you turned on your Japanese capability on your browser, I know
it did just fine on mine. Though the site also capable offerring
Japanese language to non Japanese capable browser (it will be
displayed as images, take longer to load).

> But a sign in Kanji, you get the idea...

Well... Learning kanji characters isn't that bad, just memorized them
and their meanings, you don't necessary need to learn to pronounce
them (though that is good too), just understand the basic and you will
understand.

Just think of them as more like pictures instead of alphabets. Imagine
you're a kid that is just about to learn what languages are, or better
yet, buy a Japanese children book that teaches about learning words.

I'm sure that later on, you will know what words that means "subway".

> Thanks,
> Doug

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Liz - 27 Jan 2004 15:43 GMT

> > For an English speaker in places like Tokyo, Kyoto, Nagano and Nikko,
> > will it be a battle or not too bad?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> For example, the Shinkansen is very Eigo (English language) friendly,

most of the JR (Japan Rail) lines are - they all have English signs and all
of the ticket machines have a button you can push that will display in
English. The people in the ticket offices (where you would buy Shinkansen
tickets) don' t speak English usually though. You'd have better luck in
Tokyo station than in the other stations of getting an English speaker.

> especially the Tokaido line (that serves city between Tokyo and
> Osaka), since that it's uses many times by foreigners (most Japanese
> probably don't ride the Shinkansen).

the Shinkansen is probably 70% full on this line for any given train (there
are probably 30 or more a day). LOTS of Japanese people use the shinkansen
(bullet train). Especially business people. It is faster to take the
shinkansen than it is to fly (because of check in times and distance of
airports from the city center).

> Then I suggest you learned katakana characters. This is a Japanese
> characters that used for for phoentic (pronounciation) uses only, and
> they're often used to spelled out foreign words.

I agree - or at least learn the rules of Japanese pronunciation. When
English speakers pronounce things Japanese people have no idea what we are
talking about - they can't 'guess' what we are trying to say. The breaks
between sounds are basically after the vowel rather than after the consonant
as in English. This will help you a lot... even if you find someone who
speaks English, if you pronounce the station names wrong they might not know
what you mean. Everyone can read English writing though, so if all else
fails show them your guidebook or write it down.

> > But a sign in Kanji, you get the idea...
>
> Well... Learning kanji characters isn't that bad, just memorized them
> and their meanings,

except that unless you are a genius you won't be able to learn enough to get
around. I have lived here for five years and know quite a few kanji
characters and still can't read station signs and have problems with menus.
All JR stations and subway stations (and most of the private lines) have
English and kana (Japanese phoenetic script) signs. You don't need kanji.

Restaurants frequently have plastic food out front. If you can't read the
menu, just beckon a service person out front and point to what you want.

All in all, you don't 'need' to learn Japanese. Simple phrases will help
you get more out of your experience though. In major cities you can find
your way around quite easily. The bus system is the major exception to
this, but all tourist sights are near train stations or have well signed bus
info in English (or a tourism booth with English speakers nearby).

You should just plan out your route before you go anywhere. And if you get
lost, the standing around with an open guidebook looking confused, is almost
guaranteed to get someone asking if they can help you.

Liz

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Travel Forum / Destinations / Asia / January 2004

Japan - language