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Travel Forum / Destinations / Asia / March 2006Military Coup in the offing
Panlop: Military coup possible WASSANA NANUAM A military coup may be unavoidable if Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra refuses to budge and political instability persists much longer, said Panlop Pinmanee, deputy chief of the Internal Security Operations Command (Isoc). Gen Panlop predicted political turmoil if Mr Thaksin clings to his seat. Uncontrollable tension could necessitate a military revolt to restore national calm, he said. Gen Panlop was a key figure in Class 7 of the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy, whose young turks staged an abortive coup in 1981. A coup will be motivated not by the desire to overthrow Mr Thaksin or his opponents, said Gen Panlop. He believed the soldiers would not want to see protracted turmoil threaten national security. The coup may not happen any time soon. "Certainly not today," the general said, commenting on the likelihood of the anti-Thaksin rally at Sanam Luang providing the pretext for a revolt. Gen Panlop said, however, that a coup would not be easy to organise considering that Mr Thaksin's friends in the armed forces almost monopolise the power to authorise military deployment. "When the country is in a shambles, I trust the soldiers will act professionally and not become the personal protector of the prime minister or the government," he said. The Isoc deputy commander praised army chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin for serving the country well, although some are wondering where his loyalty lies. A source, however, said Gen Sonthi has been perceived as taking Mr Thaksin's side. He is often seen at social gatherings organised in Mr Thaksin's honour and plays golf with the prime minister. He and other armed forces leaders reportedly made a pact to meet Mr Thaksin regularly. But a source in the armed forces said that even if Gen Sonthi agreed to a "military intervention" the success of a coup could not be guaranteed. The army units backing him are special warfare soldiers, most of whom have now been redeployed as reinforcements fighting separatist insurgents in the deep South. The power to mobilise personnel is primarily in the hands of Mr Thaksin's classmates at the Armed Forces Preparatory School, the source said. "There's no way Gen Sonthi's strength alone will get the job done," he said. None of the close aides of Privy Council chairman Prem Tinsulanonda are in key military positions able to call the rank and file to arms. Gen Panlop said Mr Thaksin should stand down because there have been too many questions raised about his suitability as leader. > Panlop: Military coup possible > WASSANA NANUAM [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Panlop Pinmanee, deputy chief of the Internal Security Operations > Command (Isoc). -------------- My hope is the military will just stay out of this. Soldiers should remain soldiers; nobody has voted them into office and they should stay out. Wakalukong > Panlop: Military coup possible > WASSANA NANUAM [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > professionally and not become the personal protector of the prime > minister or the government," he said. What? It's the soldiers' professional responsibility to protect the elected government and PM!!! Not to side with the mobs of unruly and violent protestors. sanipped > What? > It's the soldiers' professional responsibility to protect the elected > government and PM!!! Not to side with the mobs of unruly and violent > protestors. Li'le Chinese from malaysia: 1) where awas any mob? 2) ever did hear of democracy? Now go back to Mahatir Country, clear that you donno sh.t about democracy! Reply Hang that Sondhi Limthongkul and solve the problem. Thaksin is an elected leader of the country. Sondhi should not fight like a gangster outside the parliament or court if he believe in democracy and rule of law Gen Panlop should be sacked. Instead of talking nonsense, he should be making sure no riot is allowed. > Panlop: Military coup possible > WASSANA NANUAM [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > Panlop said Mr Thaksin should stand down because there have been too > many questions raised about his suitability as leader. This is democracy in action, where the public can force government change through political protest, in this case lead by Sonthi. The rule of law is what has been called into question by Thaksin's alleged despotism. A coup is inappropriate - public pressure and political action according to the constitution might be a little slow but it is the right way. Hang that Sondhi Limthongkul and solve the problem. Thaksin is an elected leader of the country. Sondhi should not fight like a gangster outside the parliament or court if he believe in democracy and rule of law Gen Panlop should be sacked. Instead of talking nonsense, he should be making sure no riot is allowed. Then stand for election and not to fight like gangster outside parliament! This is not democracy! See how the people fight against their presidents in US - Nixon and Clinton, they used the constitutional way. This is democracy in action, where the public can force government change through political protest, in this case lead by Sonthi. The rule of law is what has been called into question by Thaksin's alleged despotism. A coup is inappropriate - public pressure and political action according to the constitution might be a little slow but it is the right way. "....lobert...." <lobert@imh.org> wrote in message news:du0ecq$hl5$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg... Hang that Sondhi Limthongkul and solve the problem. Thaksin is an elected leader of the country. Sondhi should not fight like a gangster outside the parliament or court if he believe in democracy and rule of law Gen Panlop should be sacked. Instead of talking nonsense, he should be making sure no riot is allowed. You know, the thing about this democracy thing is that democracy does not allow communism and that's undemocratic at all.!!! And if democracy allows communism to stand for elections and communism wins, out goes democracy.!!! Then stand for election and not to fight like gangster outside parliament! This is not democracy! See how the people fight against their presidents in US - Nixon and Clinton, they used the constitutional way. "My Hobby" <mgeorge6@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:du1f3d$2f0$1@news.loxinfo.co.th... This is democracy in action, where the public can force government change through political protest, in this case lead by Sonthi. The rule of law is what has been called into question by Thaksin's alleged despotism. A coup is inappropriate - public pressure and political action according to the constitution might be a little slow but it is the right way. "....lobert...." <lobert@imh.org> wrote in message news:du0ecq$hl5$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg... Hang that Sondhi Limthongkul and solve the problem. Thaksin is an elected leader of the country. Sondhi should not fight like a gangster outside the parliament or court if he believe in democracy and rule of law Gen Panlop should be sacked. Instead of talking nonsense, he should be making sure no riot is allowed. >You know, the thing about this democracy thing is that democracy does not >allow communism and that's undemocratic at all.!!! [snip] Which countries are you talking about which are democratic and don't allow communist parties to run candidates for office? Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. You sort of miss the point with a new election. His past wrong doings and looting of the country aren't addressed by a new election. He can buy the popular vote but that doesn't make him eligible to hold the position; if a fraction of the allegations are proven he is indeed ineligible. Public protest is an essential part of democracy. That is what drives congresses/parliaments to impeach executive office holders. Then stand for election and not to fight like gangster outside parliament! This is not democracy! See how the people fight against their presidents in US - Nixon and Clinton, they used the constitutional way. "My Hobby" <mgeorge6@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:du1f3d$2f0$1@news.loxinfo.co.th... This is democracy in action, where the public can force government change through political protest, in this case lead by Sonthi. The rule of law is what has been called into question by Thaksin's alleged despotism. A coup is inappropriate - public pressure and political action according to the constitution might be a little slow but it is the right way. "....lobert...." <lobert@imh.org> wrote in message news:du0ecq$hl5$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg... Hang that Sondhi Limthongkul and solve the problem. Thaksin is an elected leader of the country. Sondhi should not fight like a gangster outside the parliament or court if he believe in democracy and rule of law Gen Panlop should be sacked. Instead of talking nonsense, he should be making sure no riot is allowed. You mean that Sondhi Limthongkul is a good man ? Thanksin was rich before he became PM. You sort of miss the point with a new election. His past wrong doings and looting of the country aren't addressed by a new election. He can buy the popular vote but that doesn't make him eligible to hold the position; if a fraction of the allegations are proven he is indeed ineligible. Public protest is an essential part of democracy. That is what drives congresses/parliaments to impeach executive office holders. "....lobert...." <lobert@imh.org> wrote in message news:du1eej$9kh$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg... Then stand for election and not to fight like gangster outside parliament! This is not democracy! See how the people fight against their presidents in US - Nixon and Clinton, they used the constitutional way. "My Hobby" <mgeorge6@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:du1f3d$2f0$1@news.loxinfo.co.th... This is democracy in action, where the public can force government change through political protest, in this case lead by Sonthi. The rule of law is what has been called into question by Thaksin's alleged despotism. A coup is inappropriate - public pressure and political action according to the constitution might be a little slow but it is the right way. "....lobert...." <lobert@imh.org> wrote in message news:du0ecq$hl5$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg... Hang that Sondhi Limthongkul and solve the problem. Thaksin is an elected leader of the country. Sondhi should not fight like a gangster outside the parliament or court if he believe in democracy and rule of law Gen Panlop should be sacked. Instead of talking nonsense, he should be making sure no riot is allowed. > You mean that Sondhi Limthongkul is a good man ? Thanksin was rich before he became PM. Again: you talk what you know, Taksin became only really rich when in Giovernment - before only a small sales man. >>You mean that Sondhi Limthongkul is a good man ? Thanksin was rich before he became PM. > > Again: you talk what you know, Taksin became only really rich when in > Giovernment - before only a small sales man. ...in 2000, when thaksin was "only a small sales man" Shin Corp had assets of around 38,000 million baht and Shin Sat had around 12,000 million... talking what you know, obviously not your specialty, is better than talking out your a.s, which you apparently excel at... michael > >>You mean that Sondhi Limthongkul is a good man ? Thanksin was rich before he became PM. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > michael Khun Michael: Taksin was since 98 in Government - eat your words now! >> >>You mean that Sondhi Limthongkul is a good man ? Thanksin was rich >> >>before he became PM. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Khun Michael: Taksin was since 98 in Government - eat your words now! K Chabon, I said Thanksin was rich before he became PM. Thaksin became The 23rd Prime Minister of Thailand on February 9,2001. Sondhi Limthongkul is playing with fire. >I said Thanksin was rich before he became PM. Only Prime Minister allowed to get rich in politics in Thailand? :-) He didn't get to the top based on his social skills. Dave >>I said Thanksin was rich before he became PM. > > Only Prime Minister allowed to get rich in politics in Thailand? :-) He > didn't get to the top based on his social skills. > > Dave Surely, he is better than those military men who took power by force. He stand for democratic election and has landslide victory. He represent the party and the people elected him as PM. He has largely delivered on his promises to revive Thailand's fortunes after the 1997 Asian financial crisis and has proved a popular leader. BIRTH DATE/PLACE July 26,1949 / Chiangmai Province RELIGION Buddhism MARITAL STATUS Married with Khunying Potjaman Shinawatra (Damapong) EDUCATION BACKGROUND a.. 1973 - Graduated from the Police Cadet Academy in Thailand a.. 1975 - Master Degree in Criminal Justice, Eastern Kentucky University, U.S.A. a.. 1978 - Doctorate Degree in Criminal Justice, Sam Houston State University, U.S.A. EXPERIENCES a.. 1973-1987 - Joined the Royal Thai Police Department and was promoted to Police Lieutenant Colonel in 1987. Last position was Deputy Superintendent of the Policy and Planning Sub-division, General Staff Division, Metropolitan Police Bureau a.. 1987-1994 - Started Shinawatra Computer and Communications Group - Chairman of Shinawatra Computer and Communications Group POLITICAL APPOINTMENT a.. Novermber 2,1994 - February 10, 1995 - Minister of Foreign Affiairs a.. May 28, 1995 to November 18, 1996 - Leader of the Palang Dharma Party a.. July 20, 1995 to August 14,1996 - Deputy Prime Minister (in charge of traffic and transportation in Bangkok) a.. August 15,1997 to November 14, 1997 - Deputy Prime Minister a.. July 14,1998 - present - Established the Thai Rak Thai Party and Leader of Thai Rak Thai Party a.. January 6,1998 to February 9, 2001 - Member of the Parliament (Party List) a.. February 9,2001 - The 23rd Prime Minister of Thailand a.. March 11, 2005 - The 24rd Prime Minister of Thailand >Surely, he is better than those military men who took power by force. Not necessarily. How he took power is one thing, but as far as running the show I'd say he is one of the worst. >He stand for democratic election and has landslide victory. It just goes to show how stupid & easily bribed the majority of ANY country is. Promise them 1 million baht per village & 30 baht medical & of course you will get a landslide victory. Whether it totally wrecks the country 2 generations down the road isn't on the minds of most voters. >He represent the >party and the people elected him as PM. He has largely delivered on his >promises to revive Thailand's fortunes after the 1997 Asian financial crisis You must be reading different reports than me. I'm sorry, but I haven't liked the guy from Day 1. He's gone about "fixing" the drug problem by arbitrarily bumping off 2000 people including undoubtedly innocent people - no change in the drug problem. He's been ham-fisted in trying to solve the problems in the South, and undoubtedly made them worse. He's either stupid or corrupt as far as his business dealings & shuffling about of shares go, and he's not stupid. Dave >>Surely, he is better than those military men who took power by force. > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Dave He is, of course, NOT stupid, otherwise he would not have cash his shares "just in case" the situation turn bad for him. We are looking from different angle but Thailand did improved for the last few years until the South Thailand problem. >"Dave Baker" <newsgroup_poster@jodael.com> wrote in message >> He's either stupid or corrupt as far as his business dealings & shuffling >> about of shares go, and he's not stupid. >He is, of course, NOT stupid, I think you get my meaning. :-) >otherwise he would not have cash his shares "just in case" the situation turn bad for him. Well, I'm talking also about more distant events - the passing of many shares to his housekeeper, maid, driver and guard. One would have to be a very good maid to deserve being given 160 million baht worth of shares! :-) >We are looking from different >angle but Thailand did improved for the last few years until the South >Thailand problem. Improved in what way? Was it better in any way than any other S.E.A. economy over the last few years? If not, then any success can't necessarily be attributed to Thaksin. Are the 30 baht medical schemes & the million baht per village providing any real benefits apart from winning votes? http://www.bangkokpost.net/ecoreviewye2004/health.html http://www.chiangmai-mail.com/012/news.shtml#hd5 Dave > It just goes to show how stupid & easily bribed the majority of ANY country > is. Promise them 1 million baht per village & 30 baht medical & of course you > will get a landslide victory. Whether it totally wrecks the country 2 > generations down the road isn't on the minds of most voters. which statement pretty much sums up what you think of democracy, right? michael >> It just goes to show how stupid & easily bribed the majority of ANY country >> is. Promise them 1 million baht per village & 30 baht medical & of course you >> will get a landslide victory. Whether it totally wrecks the country 2 >> generations down the road isn't on the minds of most voters. > >which statement pretty much sums up what you think of democracy, right? Most thinking people do. The only problem is - there isn't anything better. Dave >>> It just goes to show how stupid & easily bribed the majority of ANY >>> country [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > The only problem is - there isn't anything better. People who are easily satified may not be stupid, they are happy people. On the other hand, if they are stupid as you said, are you also saying that they don't deserved to cast the vote and elect their own government. >"Dave Baker" <newsgroup_poster@jodael.com> wrote in message >>>> will get a landslide victory. Whether it totally wrecks the country 2 >>>> generations down the road isn't on the minds of most voters. >>>which statement pretty much sums up what you think of democracy, right? >> Most thinking people do. >> The only problem is - there isn't anything better. >People who are easily satified may not be stupid, they are happy people. My point was - will their grandchildren be happy? Politicians & far too many voters can't see past the next 3 years & the next carrot dangled in front of them. Singapore is giving away how much cash away this election year - mere coincidence? :-) Surely elections should be based on who can do the job best (given equal opportunity), not >On the other hand, if they are stupid as you said, are you also saying that >they don't deserved to cast the vote and elect their own government. As I also said - although it's a crap system, any alternatives are more crap. One could say that a dictatorship stops the stupid people from influencing the vote, but the problem comes when you get a stupid dictator. At least with stupid voters, they tend to cancel each other out somewhat, or eventually come to their senses - usually a few years too late. Dave >>"Dave Baker" <newsgroup_poster@jodael.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > stupid voters, they tend to cancel each other out somewhat, or eventually > come to their senses - usually a few years too late. Will the Thais know whether their grandchilren will be happy, even if another Thai became PM. In Singapore case, can anyone say for sure their grandchildren will be happier if government do not give cash for this election? What is the alternative for Thai then? Are there any opposition better that Thaksin? >What is the alternative for Thai then? Are there any opposition better that >Thaksin? I haven't been following it closely in the last 6 months, so I don't know what the Opposition is like at this moment. However, the Thais are no strangers to different parties in power. Anyone would be better than Thaksin - he should be in jail for tax fraud, not leading the country. Singaporeans & Malaysians are the only ones been brainwashed that the whole country will fall apart if PAP/UMNO don't get voted back in. I wouldn't put it past them to cause trouble if it did happen... Dave >>What is the alternative for Thai then? Are there any opposition better >>that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dave Nope! that's what you think, not all Singaporean think that way. What crime has Thaksin committed ? What tax fraud ? >> Singaporeans & Malaysians are the only ones been brainwashed that the >> whole country will fall apart if PAP/UMNO don't get voted back in. I wouldn't >> put it past them to cause trouble if it did happen... >Nope! that's what you think, not all Singaporean think that way. Of course not, but most of the ones that don't are in jail! :-) Actually of course you are right, but obviously enough do to keep PAP in power. >What crime has Thaksin committed ? What tax fraud ? C'mon. Don't you read? Do YOU think that giving 160 million baht worth of shares to his maid was done for anything apart from trying to hide assets? He just hasn't been caught yet. Dave >>> Singaporeans & Malaysians are the only ones been brainwashed that the >>> whole country will fall apart if PAP/UMNO don't get voted back in. I [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Dave "giving 160 million baht worth of shares to his maid was done for anything apart from trying to hide assets " What happen to the court then? He bribed the judges? If the court decided that a killer is not guilty, so be it. > >>> It just goes to show how stupid & easily bribed the majority of ANY > >>> country [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > On the other hand, if they are stupid as you said, are you also saying that > they don't deserved to cast the vote and elect their own government. That is the point, isn't it? People of a certain political persuasion have long taken the stance that the people are too stupid to make their own decisions. In the US, for example, the Conservatives have long been calling for government assistance in paying health insurance premiums (so the people can choose who they want to run their health care) while the Left has been calling for a government takeover because the people can't be trusted to make their own decisions. Same with the argument about Social Security. The Left is sincerely convinced that people will not be able to survive retirement unless the government runs it for them. There's a term for all of this and it is "Elitism". That being the belief that most people can't be trusted to control their own lives and the Intellectual Elite should compassionately take over control of everyone's lives for them and the world would be better off. It is the polar opposite of democracy. When Thaksin called for the election and the opposition said that they would boycott and demanded that Thaksin step down they showed their true colors. <a tchiowan-typical mischaracterization of both U.S. 'conservatives' and 'liberals'> Guess which ones' agendas he spun up and which he spun down? ;~) >>>> It just goes to show how stupid & easily bribed the majority of ANY >>>> country [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >On the other hand, if they are stupid as you said, are you also saying that >they don't deserved to cast the vote and elect their own government. Saying that people are stupid is not the same as saying they don't deserve to vote. But of course, if they vote stupidly, they get stupid results. At least it's their responsibility, though. As Dave said, what if you get a stupid dictator? And that's not the worst. What if you get an evil insane dictator like Stalin or Hitler? It's better to have a limited government subject to regular elections. Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. >>>>> It just goes to show how stupid & easily bribed the majority of ANY >>>>> country [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > you get an evil insane dictator like Stalin or Hitler? It's better to > have a limited government subject to regular elections. Saying that they are stupid is not the same as saying they are not deserved to vote, so what is it ? There are also people who believe US voters are stupid to re-elect Bush to power. As you and Dave said, what if you get a stupid dictator? So what is your suggestion ? Don't vote? No election? Let UN takes over ? Let US appoint an Administrator like in Iraq and Afghanistan? or what ? >As you and Dave said, what if you get a stupid dictator? >So what is your suggestion ? >Don't vote? As I said - it's a crap system, but there is nothing better at the moment. The solution is more educated people - notice that its' the mid-westerners & country folks that have no exposure to the rest of the world that keep Bush in power. Most of them wouldn't know where Iraq was on a map, but he has them scared to death. The more cosmopolitan & educated citizens on the coast that have more interaction with foreigners voted overwhelmingly against Bush. The problem is - the governments know that they can stay in power by keeping the people fat, dumb & happy. You just need to educate them enough to have sufficient productivity, but keep them politically uneducated. Dave >>As you and Dave said, what if you get a stupid dictator? >>So what is your suggestion ? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dave So only "educated" people should vote, the rest are not deserved? So US voters are equally stupid ? >So only "educated" people should vote, the rest are not deserved? Haven't we just spent the last 3 days going through this? >So US voters are equally stupid ? You'll notice that my very first comment on the thread said ALL countries, with ALL highlighted. And my last comment specifically mentioned the USA. Hell, the analysers spent weeks showing the data - remember the red & blue maps? Dave >>So only "educated" people should vote, the rest are not deserved? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Hell, the analysers spent weeks showing the data - remember the red & blue > maps? There is nothing outsiders can do if the people are willing to elect their own leader, good or bad, in a free election. >There is nothing outsiders can do if the people are willing to elect their >own leader, good or bad, in a free election. You'll also notice that I didn't say that outsiders SHOULD do anything. However, I do have an opinion - we have an office in Bangkok & I live & work there regularly, so I believe I am entitled to one. Dave >>There is nothing outsiders can do if the people are willing to elect their >>own leader, good or bad, in a free election. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > work > there regularly, so I believe I am entitled to one. So you are going to join that Sondhi Limthongkul this Sunday to protest against Thaksin. Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain peaceful and make a little progress. They prefer these countries to chaos and exploit the situation. [snip] >Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand >remain peaceful [snip] Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of "peace" to break out all over! Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. > [snip] >> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of > "peace" to break out all over! Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful. >> [snip] >>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful. You're a f.cking idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's "peace"? f.ck you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against Thais or Thailand. Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. >>> [snip] >>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "peace"? f.ck you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against > Thais or Thailand. So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to people like you. > >>> [snip] > >>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to > people like you. But in this thread he was right - you did the idiotic accusations - and still do! So there is no loss to anyone if you don't post anymore in SCT! >>>>> [snip] >>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > still do! So there is no loss to anyone if you don't post anymore in > SCT! While thousands protest in Bangkok, rural residents have no complaints BAAN SUKSOMBOON (Thailand) — From her wooden stilt house surrounded by rice padi fields, Ms Sudjai Srimongkol stared down at her grunting piglets and chirping chicks on Sunday, shrugging off a question about the tens of thousands of anti-government demonstrators that had gathered a six-hour drive away in Bangkok. . "I've never heard anyone here complain about Thaksin," Mr Sudjai said, referring to embattled Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. "Everyone says he has helped them a lot." . Mr Thaksin faced on Sunday what his opponents said would be a decisive moment in their campaign to oust him. According to official estimates, between 50,000 and 100,000 protesters marched through the capital, vowing they would not go home until the premier resigned. . But in rural areas, where about two-thirds of Thailand's 63 million people live, Mr Thaksin's popularity remains untarnished. Here in the country's vast and populous rice-farming heartland, it approaches adoration. Farmers and owners of small businesses say their lives have been transformed and that their incomes have doubled during Mr Thaksin's five years in power. . "Even if someone paid me I wouldn't go to an anti-Thaksin demonstration," said Mr Suwat Laocharuen, the village chief of Baan Nonsawan, a short drive from Ms Sudjai's stilt house. "We just love him." . Both Mr Thaksin and his opponents expect the premier's party to win the most seats in the snap poll scheduled for April 2. But in a sign of the deepening split between Bangkok and the provinces, the opposition — which draws much of its support from Bangkok and parts of southern Thailand — has decided to boycott the election. . Mr Thaksin's opponents have accused him of corruption and abuse of power, charging that he has stripped key institutions of their independence — the courts, the press, the anti-corruption authorities — and that he uses his office to further his business interests. . The tax-free sale of his family communications firm to Singapore's investment company, Temasek, for US$1.9 billion ($3.1 billion) in January set off the latest round of protests. . But the argument that Mr Thaksin must therefore resign does not wash with Mr Suwat, the village chief. "It's not fair that a leader gets two-thirds of the vote and then is brought down by street demonstrations," he said. . In the February election last year, Mr Thaksin won 61 per cent of the vote, a landslide by Thai standards. In a country with a long history of messy coalitions, his Thai Rak Thai party was the first to win an absolute majority. In many rural areas, his party swept all of the seats. . Mr Thaksin cemented the loyalty of rural Thais with a three-year moratorium on their debts and a government programme that offered US$26,000 to every village in Thailand, from which residents could borrow for small business ventures. . Partly as a result, rural incomes increased 29 per cent in 2001, the first year Mr Thaksin was in power, 23 per cent the next year, and by double digits each year since. Last year, the average rural income reached US$821, according to the Rural Development Information Center of the Interior Ministry. . Baan Suksomboon villagers said they would be bitter if Mr Thaksin is removed from power. . "Of course I will be angry," said Mr Muthita Shinpromma, who works at a factory stitching Nike sweatpants for US$3.70 a day. "Thaksin is helping people at the grassroots." . Mr Thaksin also began a health scheme allowing Thais to obtain any medical treatment for just 77 American cents per visit. . When asked why he supported Mr Thaksin, Mr Prachan Gaewchamlong lifted his shirt, revealing many scars. A serious motorcycle accident last year left him with a broken jaw, ribs, and hip. His total medical bill, he said: 77 American cents. . Mr Prachan, a rice farmer, said he was convinced that the people demonstrating against Mr Thaksin were being paid to show up. The passions of the protesting university students, professors, and professionals suggest otherwise, but his suspicion suggests how polarised Thai society is today. — THE NEW YORK TIMES >>>>> [snip] >>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > still do! So there is no loss to anyone if you don't post anymore in > SCT! These outsider want Thais to be flooded with drug smugglers and peddlers and racial and religion riots in Southern Thailand. Thailand should follow Indonesia to arrest all these foreigners in Bali. > >>>>> [snip] > >>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > and racial and religion riots in Southern Thailand. Thailand should > follow Indonesia to arrest all these foreigners in Bali. lobert: somebody said you're a "f.cking Idiot" and you just proved it again - look at the result our PM has brought: over 1,000 dead in my area and "alleged" thousands of drug dealers executed commando style. And you brainless Idiot have the nerves to say that with this style we have peace? Go back to your Sillypore and learn how to read, or better f.ck off from SCT, you are not qualified. Where in this thread I or the others have advocated for sectarian violence or for free drugs? You are the worst class of human being - those that know sh.t but have a big mouth! LOL Lobert is he talking to you or about you LOL? > > >>>>> [snip] > > >>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > You are the worst class of human being - those that know sh.t but have > a big mouth! > LOL Lobert is he talking to you or about you LOL? Actually I was talking to that sh.t for brains guy (from Sillypore), and that was to him and certainly about him. It is those dumb people like him, that have zero information but make the world crazy, nobody advocated drugs or violence - bit this sh.t for brains probably can't even read. Nothing worse than people that know absolutely nothing but talk big! > > > >>>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...." > <lobert@imh.org> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > You are the worst class of human being - those that know sh.t but have > > a big mouth! >>>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > You are the worst class of human being - those that know sh.t but have > a big mouth! You are f.cking idiot like Pan, making stupid noise against the Thais and hoping another military coup in Thailand. The 1000 dead are like pest in the society and have to be terminated like pest. What human right some outsiders are talking should go back to where they come from and see what human right they have in their own countries. >>>>> So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to >>>>> people like you. >You are f.cking.... Interesting. Yet still you continue to evade the very relevant point made. Dave >>>>>> So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to >>>>>> people like you. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Dave sorry, not my intention to use vulgar words but Chabon 19 asking for it. What I am saying is that terminating the pest was to keep Thailand peaceful. >>>>>>> So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to >>>>>>> people like you. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > What I am saying is that terminating the pest was to keep Thailand > peaceful. Every country choose their own way to solve their problem. Israeli had chosen to bomb the Palestinian, US locked up the "terrorists" in Guantanamo. The Thais choose to terminate the pest. >>>>>>> So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to >>>>>>> people like you. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >sorry, not my intention to use vulgar words but Chabon 19 asking for it. >What I am saying is that terminating the pest was to keep Thailand peaceful. Seems pretty hypocritical. And the point is very valid, as terminating any messenger won't change the fact that Thailand isn't peaceful. And it hasn't gotten any better since Thaksin came in. Dave > And the point is very valid, as terminating any messenger won't change the > fact that Thailand isn't peaceful. And it hasn't gotten any better since > Thaksin came in. ...on the "peace" front, maybe not... doubling the incomes of the poor in rural thailand ought to count for something, though... maybe that's why he hasn't properly greased the SUV and a latte crowd that wants him out... his problem isn't corruption; it's sharing the spoils with the wrong people... michael > > And the point is very valid, as terminating any messenger won't change the > > fact that Thailand isn't peaceful. And it hasn't gotten any better since [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > michael Michael, The only problem is that until today more SUV's have been purchased on the money that actually was for the country... And: the problem is eggsaggly corruption - sorry to spoil your evening! Cheers Chabby >> And the point is very valid, as terminating any messenger won't change the >> fact that Thailand isn't peaceful. And it hasn't gotten any better since >> Thaksin came in. >...on the "peace" front, maybe not... I'm sure that's pretty important. >doubling the incomes of the poor >in rural thailand ought to count for something, though... Where is the support for that statement? Sure, he "loans" 1 million baht per village, but really, is every villager REALLY twice as well off as previously? I haven't seen any figures to back this up. Have buffalo sales doubled? Toyota King Cab sales doubled? Isaan girls to Patpong halved? Dave > >> And the point is very valid, as terminating any messenger won't change the > >> fact that Thailand isn't peaceful. And it hasn't gotten any better since [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Where is the support for that statement? Ask the people. Why do you think they support Thaksin? > Sure, he "loans" 1 million baht per village, And these microloans to individuals are made to get people past minor problems or setbacks and help them back on a successful track. I know several people who credit a 5,000 baht loan from the government for keeping their heads above water long enough for a crop to come in, for example. This way they don't have to go to the loan sharks. > but really, is every villager REALLY twice as well off as previously? Did he say "every"? Dishonest as always, Dave? And while most villagers may not be exactly 2.0000 times as well off, most are *significantly* better off. If you need support, ask some of the villagers. > I haven't seen any figures to back this up. Have buffalo sales > doubled? Toyota King Cab sales doubled? Isaan girls to Patpong halved? Childish stereotypes indicating the snobbery of your elitist view on life. >> I haven't seen any figures to back this up. Have buffalo sales >> doubled? Toyota King Cab sales doubled? Isaan girls to Patpong halved? >Childish stereotypes indicating the snobbery of your elitist view on >life. My investments tend more towards the "elitist" side based on your criteria. However, it's a well known fact that your area of expertise extends no further than Isaan girls & water buffalo! :-) Dave >>> I haven't seen any figures to back this up. Have >>> buffalo sales [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dave *****Ahhhhhhhh Titchy........Someone else has your measure. ;-) Ladies and Gentlemen; Thailand is a very peaceful kingdom, especially when compared to many of its' neighbors. And because it is a constitutional monarchy with a king that is revered by the citizens, it retains a great deal of stability even in the midst of the growning pains that are to be expected of a young democracy. Even though the kingdom and the culture itself is very old, Thailand is still comming to terms with the difficulties involved in self governance ie democracy. It is to be expected that the Thai people will make numerous mistakes while finding the best possible way to govern themselves and their country but the good news is that they have begun the journey and have by an large done a rather good job of it. There are of course culture differences between East and Western cultures which results in different governments, different types of democracies etc but that is good and to be encouraged. Not everyone needs to be alike.. I welcome your civil and literate comments. Cordially, Hunter > Ladies and Gentlemen; > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Hunter 67.103.140.34 = [ h-67-103-140-34.lsanca54.covad.net ] network: Country-Code: US http://www.EarthLink.net >Ladies and Gentlemen; > > Thailand is a very peaceful kingdom, especially when compared to many of >its' neighbors. [snip] How many of them? Name the countries. OK, I'll start: Burma. And? Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. >> Thailand is a very peaceful kingdom, especially when compared to many of >>its' neighbors. > How many of them? Name the countries. OK, I'll start: Burma. And? and cambodia and indonesia and the phillipines... michael >>> Thailand is a very peaceful kingdom, especially when compared to many of >>>its' neighbors. > > > How many of them? Name the countries. OK, I'll start: Burma. And? > >and cambodia and indonesia and the phillipines... How many killings are going on in Cambodia lately? I think it's open to a lot of question whether Thailand is more peaceful than Indonesia and the Philippines. Perhaps someone could post figures on the number of killings in each country. Particularly if you do a per capita comparison, I'm sure Thailand would come out on the short end by comparison with Indonesia. And note that there is a ceasefire in Aceh, and an existing, albeit fragile, peace agreement. On the other hand, things are rather different in West Papua. Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. >>>> Thailand is a very peaceful kingdom, especially when compared to many of >>>> its' neighbors. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ceasefire in Aceh, and an existing, albeit fragile, peace agreement. > On the other hand, things are rather different in West Papua. and you hope to see South East Asia becoming less peaceful especially Thailand. >and you hope to see South East Asia becoming less peaceful especially >Thailand. And you keep coming up with the same tired rhetoric. Go & ask anyone in the South how peaceful Thailand is. Dave >>> How many of them? Name the countries. OK, I'll start: Burma. And? >> >> and cambodia and indonesia and the phillipines... > > How many killings are going on in Cambodia lately? your definition of peace is as narrow as it appears your "mind" is... why don't you ask sam rainsy how he'd compare thailand and cambodia in terms of governance and "peace"? try this from wiki: > The Human Rights situation in Cambodia is facing growing criticisms > both within the country and an increasingly alarmed international > community. After a series of flagrant violation against basic human > rights a feeling of incertitude regarding the direction the country > is emerging, sometimes comparing the situation to a new-born Burma[1] > I think it's open to a lot of question whether Thailand is more > peaceful than Indonesia and the Philippines. it's open to a lot of question whether you "get" the point of the OP's notion of peaceable kingdom... how many presidents in PI in the last decade? how much civil unrest? corruption? >Perhaps someone could > post figures on the number of killings in each country. Particularly > if you do a per capita comparison, I'm sure Thailand would come out > on the short end by comparison with Indonesia. a high murder rate does not necessarily equate with a lack of political peace (unless of course it's the only way of making a half-baked argument sound like it means anything)... >And note that there is > a ceasefire in Aceh, and an existing, albeit fragile, peace > agreement. On the other hand, things are rather different in West > Papua. and note that if this is not intended ironically, your mother was cruel to have let you live this way... michael [snip] >and note that if this is not intended ironically, your mother was cruel >to have let you live this way... Ho hum. If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. > >>>>> [snip] > >>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain peaceful > >>>>> [snip] > >>>>> Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of "peace" to break out all over! > >>>> Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful. > >>> You're a f.cking idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's "peace"? f.ck you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against Thais or Thailand. > >> So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to people like you. > > But in this thread he was right - you did the idiotic accusations - and still do! So there is no loss to anyone if you don't post anymore in SCT! > These outsider want Thais to be flooded with drug smugglers and peddlers and racial and religion riots in Southern Thailand. Thailand should follow Indonesia to arrest all these foreigners in Bali. lobert, you're making accusations (of 'these outsiders,' this time) AGAIN. You object to vulgar language while making vulgar accusations. Why pretend to be so 'outraged' that anyone would speak to you coarsely when you make accusations like "Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful" ? (try to answer that question without making more vulgar accusations, please) If you can get that far, try to tell why Pan's TRUE mention of the violence in the South and the summary executions of people thought to be drug dealers, doesn't show Thailand as being NOT very peaceful. You *might* also consider that the _reported_ murder rate per capita in Thailand is well over that of the United States. It's all true. Sorry if you don't like it, but accusing people of nasty things you say they 'want' isn't going to prove anything other than that you'd rather make accusations than have a reasonable discussion--though your accusations CAN get some people pissed off at you. Is that what you're trying for here? If not . .. -maxwell >>>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > If not . .. > -maxwell you are another idiot who want to see Thailand remain in drug peddling openly and religious riot in S Thailand to carry on, Yes, shoot all these pest like pest, what human right are you talking? > >>>>>>> [snip] > >>>>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > you are another idiot while you are just a stupid troll that I need not read any more of. > >>>>>>> [snip] > >>>>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > openly and religious riot in S Thailand to carry on, Yes, shoot all > these pest like pest, what human right are you talking? Lobert: I think it is time that you rabies carrying dog goes back to Sillypore - and don't read the news such as today: HUMAN RIGHTS Washington slams Thai record Extrajudicial killings, corruption and media intimidation mar Kingdom's image Thailand's human-rights record has "significant problems" due to extrajudicial killings and restrictions on freedom of expression, says the US government. In the annual human-rights report by the US State Department, which will be released today, Washington took the Thai government to task for violations, especially in the Malay-speaking South. For the first time the report mentions the high-profile corruption allegations at the new Suvarnabhumi Airport. This year's assessment is far more extensive and details cases of extrajudicial killings and lawsuits against the media by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The report is part of the global assessment of human rights in more than 120 countries, which have been carried out annually since 1979 and are reported to the US Congress. Numerous human-rights violations last year in the South are recorded especially after the imposition of the controversial emergency law in July, which replaced martial law. The report highlights the death of Satopa Yusof, an imam at a village mosque in Narathiwat, who apparently told relatives on his deathbed that security officials gunned him down. Another high-profile case involved the disappearance of Phra Supot Suwanjano, an environmental activist in Chiang Mai. The government refused to comment on either incident. The authorities were criticised for failing to follow up many disappearances, with 35 cases without a progress report documented. You're really only a stupid Sillypore dog, the brain wasted by rabies already! >>>>>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] > You're really only a stupid Sillypore dog, the brain wasted by rabies > already! Yes, just terminate all these pest working for outsiders trying to disestablishing Thailand. Hang Sondhi Limthongkul and solve the current problem in Thailand. >>>>>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] > You're really only a stupid Sillypore dog, the brain wasted by rabies > already! What stupid Washington slams Thai record, what about Washington own human right record? Don't be stupid. What happen in Abu Ghraib prison and Guantanamo and yet US is talking about human right? >>>> [snip] >>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to >people like you. Regardless of whether you reply to him, he has a valid point. Dave > >>>> [snip] > >>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Dave If you think that this dumbass will acceptthat, thenm you're plain wrong, he was born dumb and will die dumb - and in the meantime he commented on SCT issues without knowing anything, that will be the sad story of his life. >>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>> Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > commented on SCT issues without knowing anything, that will be the sad > story of his life. and you Chabon will live like a Carbonic dumbass , a saddest tale you have ever known. snipped > and you Chabon will live like a Carbonic dumbass , a saddest tale you > have ever known. That is true when one thinks of the idiots like you that share our world! I believe everyone shares my opinion that both of you should get lost from crossposting this insane babble to rta. "Chabon 19" <chabon19@gmail.com> kirjoitti viestissä:1142065994.458901.191370@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > snipped > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That is true when one thinks of the idiots like you that share our > world! > snipped > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That is true when one thinks of the idiots like you that share our > world! Carbonize dumbass lobert, the Singaporean sh.t for Brains wrote: > > snipped > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Carbonize dumbass Did you succeed to buy a mirror for your toilette? I guess that explains it! And now - sh.t for brains - f.ck off in direction to TEMASEK - good nite arse hole... > lobert, the Singaporean sh.t for Brains wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > explains it! And now - sh.t for brains - f.ck off in direction to > TEMASEK - good nite arse hole... Carbonized already, too dark to be seen on mirror. > > lobert, the Singaporean sh.t for Brains wrote: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Carbonized already, too dark to be seen on mirror. Yep we all see that from your dumb answers... >>> lobert, the Singaporean sh.t for Brains wrote: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Yep we all see that from your dumb answers... Hi Carbonized Crappy ! What dumbest answer is that? >So you are going to join that Sondhi Limthongkul this Sunday to protest >against Thaksin. Sorry - this Sunday I was watching the snow fall in Antwerp. >Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand >remain peaceful and make a little progress. Possibly - maybe the Al Qaida is a good example. On the other hand as an investor in the country I'm very keen on it remaining peaceful & making a lot of progress. So far I haven't seen any violence in the demonstrations. Dave > >As you and Dave said, what if you get a stupid dictator? > >So what is your suggestion ? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dave <Snip> The more cosmopolitan & educated citizens on the coast that have more interaction with foreigners voted overwhelmingly against Bush. The problem is - the governments know that they can stay in power by keeping the people fat, dumb & happy. You just need to educate them enough to have sufficient productivity, but keep them politically uneducated. _____________________________ *****Let's look at the facts (extrapolated from 2004 exit poll data:http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.... ): 1. Hanoi John's largest voting blocs were of those who make $30,000 or less per year. Hanoi John received 15.68 million votes from this demographic, or 28% of his total votes. 2. Higher percentage of high school dropouts voted for Hanoi John than President Bush. 3. More high school and college graduates voted for President Bush than Hanoi John. The very group of people that liberals labeled them as ignorant Christians and farmers voted for Bush were the group of people who gave birth to many higher learning institutions! To name a few: Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Williams, Middlebury, and Amherst, founded by the Congregationalist Church! When you choose to malign your opponents, then you do not have to make a change, this is a classic example of intellectual laziness. Regards, Noi > >As you and Dave said, what if you get a stupid dictator? > >So what is your suggestion ? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > scared to death. The more cosmopolitan & educated citizens on the coast that > have more interaction with foreigners voted overwhelmingly against Bush. Thank you for the proof of your elitists views. Note the claim that those who support Bush are somehow less educated and less "cosmopolitan". They just aren't quite as good as you self-proclaimed elites are. Are they? Now here's a little fact you won't like. The areas of the country where people have more exposure to foreigners are Southern California, Texas and Florida. Ever hear of Mexico? Of course you elitists turn up your noses at Mexicans, too. The reality is that what you mean is that they have less exposure to "Europeans". Lieberals have this love affair with Europe and European ways. Never mind that Europe kept the world at war for most of the last century. Never mind that the 2 deadliest wars in the history of the world were started in Europe. Never mind that 3 of the 4 deadliest genocides were conducted in Europe by Europeans. Never mind that the Socialist agenda that Europeans follow has led to a stagnant economy, unemployment twice the level of the US, a living standard that is falling farther and farther behind the US and a bureacuracy that is slowly strangling itself. > The problem is - the governments know that they can stay in power by keeping > the people fat, dumb & happy. You just need to educate them enough to have > sufficient productivity, but keep them politically uneducated. Again, typical elitist drivel. The people, in your opinion, are just too dumb to choose their own government. Marx would be proud of you. I suggest you go back to looking for that building in Bangkok that says Unocal on the front door. Maybe it's in the magic wardrobe upstairs. Your elitism isn't working. "Tchiowa" <tchiowa2@hotmail.com> kirjoitti viestissä:1141648530.219793.229270@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Note the claim that those who support Bush are somehow less educated > and less "cosmopolitan". They just aren't quite as good as you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > people have more exposure to foreigners are Southern California, Texas > and Florida. Ever hear of Mexico? If I recall it right, Tsoots Dabljuu secured the post by his younger brother Jeb who was/is the senator of Florida and the ballot boxes were a bit tampered in favour of Tsoots. Anyways, few people mind who is the president of the USA. Whoever he (or perhaps even "she" sometime in future) is, he fills only the boots of an errand boy. >Note the claim that those who support Bush are somehow less educated >and less "cosmopolitan". They just aren't quite as good as you >self-proclaimed elites are. Are they? I didn't make up the voting pattern, nor the analysis. I'm just pointing out the similarities. Seems you voted for Bush? :-) >I suggest you go back to looking for that building in Bangkok that says >Unocal on the front door. Maybe it's in the magic wardrobe upstairs. I suggest you put your money where your mouth is. I have the form on my desk waiting for you. Until then, your yapping doesn't interest me at all. Dave > >Note the claim that those who support Bush are somehow less educated > >and less "cosmopolitan". They just aren't quite as good as you > >self-proclaimed elites are. Are they? > > I didn't make up the voting pattern, nor the analysis. You didn't make up the voting pattern but you certainly made up the analysis. Yes the people on the East Coast and some of the West Coast voted more Democratic. But *YOU* claimed that the East Coast Lieberals who voted against Bush were "more cosmopolitan and educated". Those words were *YOURS*. And that's where the elitism comes in. But not only are you an elitist, you're also wrong about the analysis. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html People with less than a high school education voted for Kerry over Bush 50% to 49%. Post grads (the elitists you seem to like) also voted for Kerry 55 to 44. But of course they were also the largest supporters of Ralph Nader. People with a some college voted Bush 54 to 46. People with University degrees voted Bush 52 to 46. Since the number of people with post grads is small in comparison with the other groups, if you weight the averages it's quite clear that the pattern is the more educated people voted for Bush. Not Kerry. Cosmopolitan? Well there is no category for that. But let's look at income levels as a hint. Those under $50,000 a year voted 55/44 for Kerry. Those over $50,000 voted 56/43 Bush. People who work full time voted for Bush 53/45 Married people voted for Bush 57/42. Bottom line: Uneducated poor who don't work and can't keep a spouse voted for Kerry. Educated middle and upper class with jobs and families voted for Bush. Interesting definition of "cosmopolitan" that you seem to have. Do you think 2004 was a "quirk". Here's a summary from 2000: http://www.maitreg.com/politics/elections/2000/exitpolls.asp "Gore won voters with no high school diploma and those with post-graduate degrees, but Bush won among high school graduates, those who attended college, and those who graduated college." Same as 2004 1996? http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/elections/natl.exit.poll/index1.html Clinton won 49% of the vote. But he won 59% of those who earn less than $15,000 a year. And 59% of those with no high school diploma. Only 48% of those with some college and 44% of those with college degrees. Dole won 46% of those with college degrees. > I'm just pointing out the similarities. Seems you voted for Bush? :-) Yes. I'm not an elitist. > >I suggest you go back to looking for that building in Bangkok that says > >Unocal on the front door. Maybe it's in the magic wardrobe upstairs. > > I suggest you put your money where your mouth is. I have the form on my desk > waiting for you. Until then, your yapping doesn't interest me at all. As I said before, go ahead and open the escrow account. Send me the account number and I'll transfer the money into it. No problem. Nothing stopping you other than the fact that you know you're wrong. Unless of course you're one of those "uneducated poor" who don't know what an escrow account is and wouldn't have any money to put in it anyway. You made the challenge. Act on it. (Yeah, right.) >> I didn't make up the voting pattern, nor the analysis. > >You didn't make up the voting pattern but you certainly made up the >analysis. Yawn - go & get yourself one of those pretty red & blue maps. > Yes the people on the East Coast and some of the West Coast >voted more Democratic. Oh, funny - now you want to agree? >> I suggest you put your money where your mouth is. I have the form on my desk >> waiting for you. Until then, your yapping doesn't interest me at all. |
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