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Travel Forum / Destinations / Europe / July 2008Smoking ban in UK
It's all part of the great British class war LOL http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?WT.mc_id=070629daily&storyID=7521  SignatureMartin >It's all part of the great British class war LOL >http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?WT.mc_id=070629daily&storyID=7521 If it wasn't trying to be serious, I'd have laughed. SignatureTim C. >>It's all part of the great British class war LOL >>http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?WT.mc_id=070629daily&storyID=7521 > >If it wasn't trying to be serious, I'd have laughed. I laughed. SignatureMartin Following up to Martin <me@address.invalid> : >>>It's all part of the great British class war LOL >>>http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?WT.mc_id=070629daily&storyID=7521 >> >>If it wasn't trying to be serious, I'd have laughed. > >I laughed. "But for the millions of working-class smokers, the ban will have a devastating effect." and "...the real reason outgoing Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt and co despise smoking is that it is so 'Old' Labour." real gems. SignatureTim C. >Following up to Martin <me@address.invalid> : > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >real gems. Almost up to Daily Mail standards. First Post gives me a laugh most days. SignatureMartin Following up to Martin <me@address.invalid> : >Almost up to Daily Mail standards. > >First Post gives me a laugh most days. At least it's honest. SignatureTim C. >Following up to Martin <me@address.invalid> : > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >At least it's honest. Who owns the First Post and is there a paper version of it on sale somewhere? SignatureMartin >>Following up to Martin <me@address.invalid> : >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Who owns the First Post and is there a paper version of it on sale > somewhere? They're a bit cagey on their home page about who owns them... Which is odd for a leftish periodical in the UK A posh address in Cheltenham that is shared by a large number of companies and the previous company name was that off a standard 'off the shelf' company, and so it's probably a solicitor's office or specialist Company Secretary. A London telephone number. There are some vague hints about corporate sponsorship. On the other hand they've got some seriously heavy hitters, including Peter Wilby, writing for them, so they're certainly not lightweight. Probably very well connected because nobody's making any money with it. If anyone is interested enough they can spend £5 down at the Company's House web site and find out who the directors and share holders are and get a copy of last year's accounts... But the chances are that it's 'the usual (leftish) suspects' trying out a new medium or some clever people trying to get very rich... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >>>Following up to Martin <me@address.invalid> : >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >But the chances are that it's 'the usual (leftish) suspects' trying out a >new medium or some clever people trying to get very rich... Sir Peregrine Worsthorne, ex Telegraph is a "leftist"? New Left? :-) SignatureMartin On Jun 29, 12:58 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > >>Following up to Martin <m...@address.invalid> : > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > They're a bit cagey on their home page about who owns them... Yus, I've wondered about them before. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,1553119,00.html has a bit of info. Kensington High Street might suggest an Associated connection. Or might not, of course. > On Jun 29, 12:58 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Kensington High Street might suggest an Associated connection. Or > might not, of course. Well whoever's behind it will be getting sick of the outgoings soon. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >> On Jun 29, 12:58 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Well whoever's behind it will be getting sick of the outgoings soon. They are certainly fed up with getting up before lunch time to review the Sunday newspapers. SignatureMartin On Jun 29, 4:10 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > <bar...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Well whoever's behind it will be getting sick of the outgoings soon. I suspect it's not commercially motivated. There's hardly any attempt, even, to sell ads on the site - no ratecard, no sales pitch, no phone number IIRC. > On Jun 29, 4:10 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > even, to sell ads on the site - no ratecard, no sales pitch, no phone > number IIRC. Yeah, someone else made the point that it's probably a 'hobby paper' by someone with too much time on their hands and a lot of friends... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >But the chances are that it's 'the usual (leftish) suspects' trying out a >new medium or some clever people trying to get very rich... I started writing this before I saw the Observer reference posted by barney, but I was sure it's a pet project by some ex-journalist now employed in PR who has the time and inclination to dabble in his previous profession. At my previous employer, a large PR firm, all staff were circulated with a monthly newsletter that specifically targeted Ken Livingstone and the GLA. Fun for the first issue, perhaps, but deeply boring after that. Signaturecongokid Eating out in London? Read my tips... http://congokid.com >>But the chances are that it's 'the usual (leftish) suspects' trying out a >>new medium or some clever people trying to get very rich... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > monthly newsletter that specifically targeted Ken Livingstone and the GLA. > Fun for the first issue, perhaps, but deeply boring after that. How do you get the sort of job where editing a newspaper is something that can be done in your spare time? SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > >>But the chances are that it's 'the usual (leftish) suspects' trying out a > >>new medium or some clever people trying to get very rich... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > How do you get the sort of job where editing a newspaper is something that > can be done in your spare time? It depends on the quality of the newspaper... Signature(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient." Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007 > >>It's all part of the great British class war LOL > >>http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?WT.mc_id=070629daily&storyID=7521 > > > >If it wasn't trying to be serious, I'd have laughed. > > I laughed. I'm laughing all the way. I hope the rain keeps up for Sunday. I've got the hotline number to report infractions already in my phone. I'm almost giddy with excitement. I've become embittered by years of abuse by selfish smokers. Signature(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient." Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007 >> >>It's all part of the great British class war LOL >> >>http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?WT.mc_id=070629daily&storyID=7521 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >giddy with excitement. I've become embittered by years of abuse by >selfish smokers. :-) SignatureMartin Following up to d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote: > I've become embittered by years of abuse by >selfish smokers. R E L A X, dont get run over* dialing the smoke police :-) *imagine how annoyed you would be if you ended up crocked by a tobacco sponsered F1 car. Still if it was driven by His incredibleness Lewis Hamilton, you would probably get the blame! National hero or what! SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. > Following up to d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor > (*)) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > *imagine how annoyed you would be if you ended up crocked by a tobacco > sponsered F1 car. I'll get run over by someone lighting up! :) Signature(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient." Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007 > I'm laughing all the way. I hope the rain keeps up for Sunday. I've got > the hotline number to report infractions already in my phone. I'm almost > giddy with excitement. I've become embittered by years of abuse by > selfish smokers. Actually been a non-smoker for years but tempted to light up again on July 1st in a knee-jerk reaction against socialist nanny-ism. >> I'm laughing all the way. I hope the rain keeps up for Sunday. I've got >> the hotline number to report infractions already in my phone. I'm almost [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Actually been a non-smoker for years but tempted to light up again on >July 1st in a knee-jerk reaction against socialist nanny-ism. Yes, when smokers could do as they like I hated them, now I feel sorry for them. SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. >> Actually been a non-smoker for years but tempted to light up again on >> July 1st in a knee-jerk reaction against socialist nanny-ism. > > Yes, when smokers could do as they like I hated them, now I feel sorry > for them. I wouldn't go that far! >> I'm laughing all the way. I hope the rain keeps up for Sunday. I've got >> the hotline number to report infractions already in my phone. I'm almost [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Actually been a non-smoker for years but tempted to light up again on >July 1st in a knee-jerk reaction against socialist nanny-ism. Is that a Tory knee jerk reaction? Are all the doctors who have wanted a complete smoking ban for decades socialists? Did you ever spend a day in a terminal cancer ward? SignatureMartin > >> I'm laughing all the way. I hope the rain keeps up for Sunday. I've got > >> the hotline number to report infractions already in my phone. I'm almost [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > complete smoking ban for decades socialists? Did you ever spend a day in a > terminal cancer ward? I read recently that in Mexico, a higher percentage of doctors smoke than the general population there. But, I suspect that poverty is the biggest factor in that weird statistic! Signature(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient." Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007 > I read recently that in Mexico, a higher percentage of doctors smoke > than the general population there. But, I suspect that poverty is the > biggest factor in that weird statistic! In the UK, I would say a higher proportion of doctors and nurses smoke than the general population SignatureRegards, Vince. International Trucking - Germany Calling (NEW 30th June 2007) http://tinyurl.com/yv2jlw > > I read recently that in Mexico, a higher percentage of doctors smoke > > than the general population there. But, I suspect that poverty is the > > biggest factor in that weird statistic! > > In the UK, I would say a higher proportion of doctors and nurses smoke than > the general population Do you have stats for that? Signature(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient." Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007 Make credence recognised that on Sun, 1 Jul 2007 21:38:20 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) has scripted: >> > I read recently that in Mexico, a higher percentage of doctors smoke >> > than the general population there. But, I suspect that poverty is the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Do you have stats for that? He did say "I would say". Why would you want to support a view with stats? Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- >Make credence recognised that on Sun, 1 Jul 2007 21:38:20 +0100, >d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) has scripted: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >He did say "I would say". Why would you want to support a view with >stats? I would say all those doctors and nurses are dying of the effects of smoking before the age of forty. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Following up to d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote: >I read recently that in Mexico, a higher percentage of doctors smoke >than the general population there. But, I suspect that poverty is the >biggest factor in that weird statistic! are Mexican doctors poorer than average? SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. Following up to The Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> : >>I read recently that in Mexico, a higher percentage of doctors smoke >>than the general population there. But, I suspect that poverty is the >>biggest factor in that weird statistic! > >are Mexican doctors poorer than average? They are once they start smoking. SignatureTim C. >>are Mexican doctors poorer than average? > >They are once they start smoking. Ah, right. SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. > Following up to d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor > (*)) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > are Mexican doctors poorer than average? The opposite- they can afford it more. Signature(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient." Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007 Make credence recognised that on Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:11:36 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) has scripted: >> Following up to d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor >> (*)) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >The opposite- they can afford it more. Oh come on, Mexico is a rich country. There is no way a doctor would smoke "just because he can afford it". Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- >Make credence recognised that on Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:11:36 +0100, >d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) has scripted: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Oh come on, Mexico is a rich country. Huh? Hve you been there? >There is no way a doctor would smoke "just because he can afford it". That seems so. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Make credence recognised that on Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:32:24 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> has scripted: >>Make credence recognised that on Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:11:36 +0100, >>d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) has scripted: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Huh? Hve you been there? No, so I am making it up. Well not really, because it is rich compared to the rest of the world, but just looks poor next to the USA. >>There is no way a doctor would smoke "just because he can afford it". > >That seems so. Cigarettes are surely no longer a luxury item in Mexico. Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- >Make credence recognised that on Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:32:24 -0700, >Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> has scripted: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >No, so I am making it up. Well not really, because it is rich compared >to the rest of the world, but just looks poor next to the USA. It's still considered a third world country. What statistics are you using? >>>There is no way a doctor would smoke "just because he can afford it". >> >>That seems so. > >Cigarettes are surely no longer a luxury item in Mexico. They are to a very substantial part of the population, excpet for that part that has come to the USA. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Make credence recognised that on Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:32:00 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> has scripted: >>Make credence recognised that on Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:32:24 -0700, >>Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> has scripted: >>>Huh? Hve you been there? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >It's still considered a third world country. What statistics are >you using? Well, I never said it was first world, but then I hope you know the measures of first, second, and third world continually change. Mexico would have to be first world, by most definitions. Even Brasil must be getting close to that. >>>>There is no way a doctor would smoke "just because he can afford it". >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >They are to a very substantial part of the population, excpet for >that part that has come to the USA. Substantial? I don't think doctors would want to be included in that category. Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:32:00 -0700, >Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> has scripted: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >Substantial? I don't think doctors would want to be included in that >category. I should think doctors are some of the most substantial people in Mexico. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Make credence recognised that on Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:39:53 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> has scripted: >>Substantial? I don't think doctors would want to be included in that >>category. > >I should think doctors are some of the most substantial people in >Mexico. Now you're just playing with me! Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: >Well, I never said it was first world, but then I hope you know the >measures of first, second, and third world continually change capitalist communist the rest changed quite a bit before it became non PC. SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. Make credence recognised that on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:21:45 +0100, The Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> has scripted: >Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop ><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >changed quite a bit before it became non PC. The last definition I saw was: 1. Already developed. 2. Developing. 3. With no forseeable possibility of ever being developed. Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: >The last definition I saw was: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >3. With no forseeable possibility of ever being developed. never seen that one! SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. >Make credence recognised that on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:21:45 +0100, The >Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> has scripted: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >2. Developing. Under these definitions I'd accept Mexico as probably second world. But the places I go in Mexico don't even look like they may be developing. I admit one has to be careful about assuming the place one visits is somehow representative of a nation as a whole. I've not been there, but I suspect holidays spent in Cancun, Cozumel or Acapulco are not a good way to judge Mexico. Our nearby beach town of Rocky Point/Puerto Penasco, once a pretty run down looking place guaranteed to give culture shock to visiting middle class Americans is now blossoming with multi-story resort hotels, this on the long barren beach we used to camp on http://www.rentals-in-rocky-point.com/ I suspect the gringos who book in these hotels won't know anything of the Rocky Point we know, which has improved only a little over the past few decades (some of that resort money really is filtering down, though). >3. With no forseeable possibility of ever being developed. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > >Make credence recognised that on Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:32:24 -0700, > >Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> has scripted: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > It's still considered a third world country. By who ? I've been traveling almost yearly to Mexico for decades... no 3rd world IMHO. > What statistics are > you using? How bout they are the 5th in oil production, huge mineral reserves, a huge and growing tourism industry and they are next to the best market in the world, the U.S. . Many people are poor, but that is not a function of the natural wealth of Mexico... that is due to 80 years of the same corrupt political party and no rule of law. jay Tue Jul 03, 2007 mailto:gofig@mac.com > >>>There is no way a doctor would smoke "just because he can afford it". > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > They are to a very substantial part of the population, excpet for > that part that has come to the USA. >> >Make credence recognised that on Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:32:24 -0700, >> >Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> has scripted: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >huge and growing tourism industry and they are next to the best market >in the world, the U.S. . Very little of which filters down to most Mexicans. Th re very rich people in Mexico. >Many people are poor, but that is not a function of the natural wealth >of Mexico... that is due to 80 years of the same corrupt political >party and no rule of law. Who said anything about natural wealth? It is true of most third world countries that they tend to have corrupt governments. They also gtend to have some rich people. If you insist on natural wealth, how does the Mexican GDP per capita compare with first world countries? Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * [] > >Many people are poor, but that is not a function of the natural wealth > >of Mexico... that is due to 80 years of the same corrupt political [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If you insist on natural wealth, how does the Mexican GDP per > capita compare with first world countries? Not terribly, actually, but this all misses the point. Cigarettes are relatively expensive in Mexico, as a proportion of the median daily wage. Doctors can afford it more, and live in a country where it's not nearly as stigmatised as in most of the 'first world.' They smoke at higher numbers than in developed countries, and this repeats itself in other countries- e.g. Pakistan, Iran etc. Signature(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient." Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007 Following up to d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote: > Doctors can afford it more, and live in a country where it's not >nearly as stigmatised as in most of the 'first world.' Poland is having its pipe smoking champs at the moment, they just declared the winning lady. Some way to go there :-) SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. Make credence recognised that on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:24:58 +0100, The Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> has scripted: >Following up to d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor >(*)) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Poland is having its pipe smoking champs at the moment, they just >declared the winning lady. Some way to go there :-) Poles smoke like chimneys and drink like fish. Oddly, they have very beautiful women who seem to age very well despite this. Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: >Poles smoke like chimneys and drink like fish. Oddly, they have very >beautiful women who seem to age very well despite this. I hope that's not a generalisation, you will be making lists of counties wit the most babes next SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. ... Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop ... <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: ... ... >Poles smoke like chimneys and drink like fish. Oddly, they have very ... >beautiful women who seem to age very well despite this. ... ... I hope that's not a generalisation, you will be making lists of ... counties wit the most babes next That's Brazil. ;) >Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop ><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I hope that's not a generalisation, you will be making lists of >counties wit the most babes next OLD babes, at that. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >How bout they are the 5th in oil production, huge mineral reserves, a >huge and growing tourism industry and they are next to the best market [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >of Mexico... that is due to 80 years of the same corrupt political >party and no rule of law. Is it Sierra leone thats rich in diamonds but very third world? I'm not sure first world is about potential. SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. >>How bout they are the 5th in oil production, huge mineral reserves, a >>huge and growing tourism industry and they are next to the best market [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Is it Sierra leone thats rich in diamonds but very third world? I'm > not sure first world is about potential. Well it's a straight fight between Sierra Leone and Liberia. Both are, I'm told, developing at quite a rate now. Sierra Leone is currently under UK protection, which is sort of code for 'Behave or we'll send the Parachute Regiment back' and is currently considered the only real success of Tony Blair's 'forward' foreign policy. The UN moved into Liberia and cleaned the place up. For historical it's technically in the US sphere of influence, but after getting their arses kicked by a bunch of raggedy arsed kids in Mogadishu the US doesn't send troops to Africa anymore. The current president is a US educated ex World Bank official. The previous president is on trial at The Hague... Anyway, both are now superficially democratic, both are now selling their diamonds via the De Beers cartel, and so the threat to the 'great diamond swindle' that holds up half the economy of the Southern end of Africa is fading... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. Make credence recognised that on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:21:43 GMT, "William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> has scripted: >>>How bout they are the 5th in oil production, huge mineral reserves, a >>>huge and growing tourism industry and they are next to the best market [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >'Behave or we'll send the Parachute Regiment back' and is currently >considered the only real success of Tony Blair's 'forward' foreign policy. In some crappy movie someone said "No one cares about Africa", and it's true. The only places that have done well are those kept in line by the Brits, and even then it's only temporary. Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: >In some crappy movie someone said "No one cares about Africa", and >it's true. The only places that have done well are those kept in line >by the Brits, and even then it's only temporary. what approach would you adopt to get Africa sorted? SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. > Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > what approach would you adopt to get Africa sorted? Two approaches have been tried. The US one. Small numbers of highly equipped and trained soldiers try and do a series of surgical political attacks so that their nominees come to power. Result: Complete failure, humiliating US military defeat by a gang of kids in T-shirts who happen to know the area the US Special Forces troopers strayed into. US soldiers have to be rescued by Pakistani armour, who know exactly how to fight Muslim irregulars. Insurgents form 'war lord' type enclaves that are eventually overthrown by Islamic fundamentalists who have to be thrown out by a US sponsored foreign invasion on the grounds that the US 'Don't like Islamic fundamentalists'. The UK one. Large numbers of regular elite soldiers noted for their brutality are deployed along with the Special Forces assets. These soldiers are used in a series of assaults against insurgents which hit and move on, not even bothering to count enemy casualties. Result: End of hostilities, democratic elections, total defeat of the insurgents My conclusion: As a general rule the British FCO knows what it's doing, the US State Department doesn't. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >As a general rule the British FCO knows what it's doing, the US State >Department doesn't. I tend to agree, however neither will probably get Africa sorted long term, will it? SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. >>As a general rule the British FCO knows what it's doing, the US State >>Department doesn't. > > I tend to agree, however neither will probably get Africa sorted long > term, will it? In the long term, to quote a former Permanent Secretary at the FCO, we're all dead... British practice seems to indicate that sudden military brutality, for want of a better term, works in Africa. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. On Jul 4, 9:19 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > >>As a general rule the British FCO knows what it's doing, the US State > >>Department doesn't. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > British practice seems to indicate that sudden military brutality, for want > of a better term, works in Africa. Of course! - those niggers don't like it up 'em !! B; >On Jul 4, 9:19 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Of course! - those niggers don't like it up 'em !! In the mid 1960s, I worked with a former African colony District Commissioner, who was trying to start a new career as some sort of clueless software analyst. Our loss was Africa's gain. SignatureMartin > In the long term, to quote a former Permanent Secretary at the FCO, we're > all dead... John Maynard Keynes, I think ... B; Make credence recognised that on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 02:04:24 -0700, jeremyrh.geo@yahoo.com has scripted: >> In the long term, to quote a former Permanent Secretary at the FCO, we're >> all dead... > >John Maynard Keynes, I think ... I thought you said Maynard James Keenan for a moment... Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- Make credence recognised that on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:54:34 +0100, The Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> has scripted: >>As a general rule the British FCO knows what it's doing, the US State >>Department doesn't. > >I tend to agree, Me too, even if your food's shite. >however neither will probably get Africa sorted long >term, will it? That's most definitely their problem. No one else can solve it. Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- On Jul 4, 10:49 pm, Doesn't Frequently Mop <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: > That's most definitely their problem. No one else can solve it. No-one seems very interested in trying. B; Make credence recognised that on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:04:03 -0700, jeremyrh.geo@yahoo.com has scripted: >On Jul 4, 10:49 pm, Doesn't Frequently Mop ><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: > >> That's most definitely their problem. No one else can solve it. > >No-one seems very interested in trying. There are aid agencies aplenty who try, but they quite conceivably merely prolong the problem, and hinder the locals ability to sort themselves out. Signature--- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: >even if your food's shite. I thought you had moved on to "it snows all the time in London" SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. > > Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop > > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > The US one. It was a UN action !!!! > Small numbers of highly equipped Wrong, President Clinton did not provide the requested armor for the job. > and trained soldiers try and do a series of > surgical political attacks so that their nominees come to power. Pathetic. jay Wed Jul 04, 2007 mailto:gofig@mac.com > Result: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > As a general rule the British FCO knows what it's doing, the US State > Department doesn't. >> > Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop >> > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > It was a UN action !!!! It wasn't the UN who got their trousers handed to them, all scorched and with holes blown in them. The US tried 'doing things their way' and got a sound thrashing from a gang of kids in t-shirts... >> Small numbers of highly equipped > > Wrong, President Clinton did not provide the requested armor for the > job. If a commanding officer has inadequate resources he is free to resign and criticise the government openly. No US officer did so about the deployment to Mogadishu. Or Iraq come to think of it... >> and trained soldiers try and do a series of >> surgical political attacks so that their nominees come to power. > > Pathetic. Well the US performance wasn't exactly spectacular, no, but I think 'pathetic' is probably a bit strong... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > >> > Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop > >> > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > It wasn't the UN who got their trousers handed to them, Your ignorant, foolish or agenda driven ... the UN had 24 Blue helmets killed, which is exactly why they passed 837... > all scorched and > with holes blown in them. Cause the U.S. is the only nation that can/will answer the call. > The US tried 'doing things their way' and got a sound thrashing from a gang > of kids in t-shirts... Not before this handful of men killed some 2000 and injuring another 3000.... resulting in 2 Congreesional Medal of Honor, numerous Silver, Bronze and Medal of Valor awards. > >> Small numbers of highly equipped > > > > Wrong, President Clinton did not provide the requested armor for the > > job. > > If a commanding officer has inadequate resources he is free to resign No, they are not free to resign on the battlefield ... maybe I should of added 'stupid' to the list above... > and > criticise the government openly. > > No US officer did so about the deployment to Mogadishu. See above. > Or Iraq come to think of it... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Well the US performance wasn't exactly spectacular, no, but I think > 'pathetic' is probably a bit strong... jay Sat Jul 07, 2007 mailto:gofig@mac.com >> all scorched and >> with holes blown in them. > > Cause the U.S. is the only nation that can/will answer the call. But not this week, well, not there anyway... >> The US tried 'doing things their way' and got a sound thrashing from a >> gang [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 3000.... resulting in 2 Congreesional Medal of Honor, numerous Silver, > Bronze and Medal of Valor awards. Look, handing ouit medals to people who've been well thrashed as a compensation isn't new. The USA was well thrashed. Live with it. >> If a commanding officer has inadequate resources he is free to resign > > No, they are not free to resign on the battlefield ... maybe I should > of added 'stupid' to the list above... A commanding officer can refuse an appointment in the US Army. He can also resign and 'go public'. That's what being a commanding officer is. 'Resigning on the battlefield' is a silly way of you saying 'I'm stupid'. If an officer doesn't think he has the necessary resources he can protest in writing. No US officer ever did so over Mogadishu. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >> Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop >> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Islamic fundamentalists who have to be thrown out by a US sponsored foreign >invasion on the grounds that the US 'Don't like Islamic fundamentalists'. I was under the distinct impression the subject was Africa here. You definitely seem to be arguing against any US intervention in Darfur. >The UK one. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >As a general rule the British FCO knows what it's doing, the US State >Department doesn't. Coul you give some examples of this UK method? You must be talking about the days since Empire. Read up on the success of British attempts to control Afghanistan in the old, old days. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:44:03 GMT, "William Black" > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Coul you give some examples of this UK method? <holds breath> <stops holding breath when lungs start to hurt> B; >> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:44:03 GMT, "William Black" >> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > <stops holding breath when lungs start to hurt> My reply is on the way SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. On Jul 5, 9:15 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > My reply is on the way Good. I'm looking forward to the bit about democracy and cessation of hostilities. B; > On Jul 5, 9:15 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > Good. I'm looking forward to the bit about democracy and cessation of > hostilities. Didn't bother addressing that as the situation now in Sierra Leone is reasonably self evident. But I'm reading about the Afghan/British India stuff at the moment so I'm afraid he got a short essay... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. On Jul 5, 9:24 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > Good. I'm looking forward to the bit about democracy and cessation of > > hostilities. > > Didn't bother addressing that as the situation now in Sierra Leone is > reasonably self evident. We shall see ... B; > On Jul 5, 9:24 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > We shall see ... Probably no problems as long as there's a big British army 'training cadre' in-country... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. On Jul 5, 10:02 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Probably no problems as long as there's a big British army 'training cadre' > in-country... Of course - niggers only understand force, right? B; > On Jul 5, 10:02 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Of course - niggers only understand force, right? I disagree with that. I think your racist views are offensive. A military contingent from one of the developed powers may act as a stabilising force, especially if they're used to train the locals. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > I disagree with that. Really? I was just paraphrasing your remark: " British practice seems to indicate that sudden military brutality, for want of a better term, works in Africa. " > I think your racist views are offensive. I'm not expressing any racist views - just drawing attention to yours. B; >> <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > I'm not expressing any racist views - just drawing attention to yours. Then your powers of English comprehension need work. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > for want > > of a better term, works in Africa. " "Those niggers are all the same - a bit of a whopping from White Man licks them into shape" > >> I think your racist views are offensive. > > > I'm not expressing any racist views - just drawing attention to yours. > > Then your powers of English comprehension need work. Of course - you would say that, wouldn't you. However, interpreting your comments as other than being casually racist is .. challenging. B; > However, interpreting your comments as other than being casually > racist is .. challenging. Rise to the challenge and try and meet it. The same can be said about a Chinese or Cuban cadre in any other developing country. Developing nations with a new government are often vulnerable to a military takeover. A battalion sized element of foreign soldiers is often a stabilising influence. The US had to invade Grenada rather than pay the local military to overthrow the government because of this. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Rise to the challenge and try and meet it. Creative snipping noted. B; >> <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Creative snipping noted. Refusal to engage noted. An old Trotskyite trick. Must be Neo-Conservative, they're all old Trots... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Refusal to engage noted. Refusal to support your thesis noted. B; >> However, interpreting your comments as other than being casually >> racist is .. challenging. > >Rise to the challenge and try and meet it. do trolls do that? SignatureMike Reid Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk" to email remove clothing. > >> However, interpreting your comments as other than being casually > >> racist is .. challenging. > > >Rise to the challenge and try and meet it. > > do trolls do that? Another drink, Reidy ?? - you spilled most of the last one. B; >>> However, interpreting your comments as other than being casually >>> racist is .. challenging. >> >>Rise to the challenge and try and meet it. > > do trolls do that? Obviously not... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >> However, interpreting your comments as other than being casually >> racist is .. challenging. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >The US had to invade Grenada rather than pay the local military to overthrow >the government because of this. and Panama and ... SignatureMartin >> > Really? I was just paraphrasing your remark: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"Those niggers are all the same - a bit of a whopping from White Man >licks them into shape" Irony is wasted on some people. >> >> I think your racist views are offensive. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >However, interpreting your comments as other than being casually >racist is .. challenging. I interpret it as intentional irony which points up the real reason so many western nations think all the Africans need is some good old western political assistance; essentially an extension of Victorian colonialism. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > >> > Really? I was just paraphrasing your remark: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > some good old western political assistance; essentially an > extension of Victorian colonialism. ROFL "I was being ironic", "It was a pun", "Whoosh!", "the dog ate my homework". B; >>> > Really? I was just paraphrasing your remark: >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > some good old western political assistance; essentially an > extension of Victorian colonialism. I'm afraid you're seeing intelligence in the Usenet equivalent of a pulsar. It makes a lot of noise, it tends to dominate, but there's no intelligent life involved. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lo |
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