Prague
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HBD - 11 Jul 2008 23:13 GMT Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do not want to speak english or german or french. Very bad service. Dangerous drivers. They almost killed us. We had to pay for using plates in the restaurants, They cheated on everýthing, the police took our car, even tough there was no reason for it. We had to pay 1450 Kc to get the car back but, as I wanted them to call the embassy, I didn't have to pay "the penalty". If you want a good advice: Buy a book with pictures of Prague and go to Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. Bruno
Jack Campin - bogus address - 12 Jul 2008 00:21 GMT > Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do not > want to speak english or german or french. Very bad service. Dangerous > drivers. They almost killed us. We had to pay for using plates in the > restaurants, They cheated on everýthing, the police took our car, even tough > there was no reason for it. We had to pay 1450 Kc to get the car back but, > as I wanted them to call the embassy, I didn't have to pay "the penalty". Did you first go to a tattoo parlour and get "SUCKER" in Czech put somewhere conspicuous?
It's not one of my favourite places and you do get treated as a cash cow if you're a tourist, but it's not *that* bad.
> If you want a good advice: Buy a book with pictures of Prague and go > to Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. Going there again shortly - last time was in 1991, and it was one of the scarier places I've been to. Some very shady characters hanging round Keleti station and we were targeted by a pickpocket gang in the middle of the city (though they weren't quite slick enough). And far more no-language-in-common situations than in the Czech Republic.
==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ==== Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557 CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
Joseph Coulter - 12 Jul 2008 00:30 GMT >> Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or >> do not want to speak english or german or french. Very bad service. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557 CD-ROMs and free stuff: > Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts YOu will be pleasantly surprised, Budapest is a very tourist friendly city, clean with a very good feel to it. Oh I am sure that at the Fisherman's Bastion you will find likely sorts to take your belongings, but overall I was very happy, wnated to stay and will surely go back.
Prague on the other hand was charming, but at too high a cost emotionally and financially. They could less if I return and the feeling is mutual.
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Pat - 13 Jul 2008 01:06 GMT > Did you first go to a tattoo parlour and get "SUCKER" in Czech put > somewhere conspicuous? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > middle of the city (though they weren't quite slick enough). And far > more no-language-in-common situations than in the Czech Republic. Just wondering--the last time you were there was 17 years ago and he just came back from there and YOU"RE the one lecturing him on Prague? I guess you think nothing has changed in the world during the last 17 years....
Jack Campin - bogus address - 13 Jul 2008 01:38 GMT >>> If you want a good advice: Buy a book with pictures of Prague and go >>> to Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > came back from there and YOU"RE the one lecturing him on Prague? I guess > you think nothing has changed in the world during the last 17 years.... I've been to Prague a lot more recently than Budapest.
==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ==== Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557 CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
tim..... - 13 Jul 2008 10:04 GMT >> Did you first go to a tattoo parlour and get "SUCKER" in Czech put >> somewhere conspicuous? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > came back from there and YOU"RE the one lecturing him on Prague? I guess > you think nothing has changed in the world during the last 17 years.... I agree with Pat.
It is the same time frame that I last went to Prague and whilst it wasn't like the OP suggested it did have some of the traits of a rip-off tourist town. I can well believe that it has gained the worst of those in the last 17 years (and have heard other stories that it has).
OTOH I have been back to the other parts of CZ and they don't suffer from the same problem.
tim
Jack Campin - bogus address - 13 Jul 2008 12:55 GMT >>>> If you want a good advice: Buy a book with pictures of Prague and go >>>> to Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> you think nothing has changed in the world during the last 17 years.... > I agree with Pat. In that you can't read either? When did Prague acquire Keleti Station?
> It is the same time frame that I last went to Prague and whilst it wasn't > like the OP suggested it did have some of the traits of a rip-off tourist > town. I can well believe that it has gained the worst of those in the last > 17 years (and have heard other stories that it has). It's more of the same in most respects. The big addition over that time is the amount of resources devoted to gambling and the sex trade. The trade in vulgar glassware and Kafka/Mozart kitsch is much the same as it was in the early 90s.
> OTOH I have been back to the other parts of CZ and they don't suffer > from the same problem. Brno is a lot better, but it has a large new sleaze district too.
==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ==== Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557 CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
tim..... - 13 Jul 2008 16:55 GMT >>>>> If you want a good advice: Buy a book with pictures of Prague and go >>>>> to Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > In that you can't read either? When did Prague acquire Keleti Station? You'll have to learn how to read attributions.
Pat did not write that.
>> It is the same time frame that I last went to Prague and whilst it wasn't >> like the OP suggested it did have some of the traits of a rip-off tourist [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Brno is a lot better, but it has a large new sleaze district too. I actually didn't find much in Brno of interest (perhaps I didn't look hard enough).
tim
Joseph Coulter - 13 Jul 2008 18:15 GMT >>>>>> If you want a good advice: Buy a book with pictures of Prague and >>>>>> go to Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Pat did not write that. nor was the statement made about Prague, it was about Budapest where Keleti station is found.
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tim..... - 13 Jul 2008 18:23 GMT >>>>>>> If you want a good advice: Buy a book with pictures of Prague and >>>>>>> go to Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > nor was the statement made about Prague, it was about Budapest where > Keleti station is found. I know, I went there in 1982 and it's still on my "go back" list
tim
Alan S - 12 Jul 2008 07:46 GMT >Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do not >want to speak english or german or french. Very bad service. Dangerous [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. >Bruno Sorry you had such a bad time.
Over the course of my travels I've had all of those problems and more - somewhere. And I moaned about some of them at the time too; sometimes I even moaned later here or on my blog. But I never had a whole country or city that pissed me off completely.
Well, maybe Egypt; but the Pyramids and the Nile were still marvellous.
In Prague, on my first visit, the problem IIRC was transport staff who still "worked" as though you should be privileged to use their bus/tram/train. But, eventually, we found our way around and had a marvellous time.
On the second trip we ended up in the truly awful Hotel Jasmine out in the 'burbs; we moved the next day. But we still loved Prague and the surrounding parts of Czech (we stayed in Zbraslav). Not for the people - some were nice, some were nasty, just like home, but for the ambience, the architecture, the history, the art, the differences, for all the reasons I travel.
And of course very few spoke English; much the same as when we wandered through Slovenia, Hungary, Slovakia or Poland. The most common second language in those countries is German, not English, so we got by with some basic dictionaries and a good English/German dictionary and lots of charades and mistakes and confusion - and sometimes some fun. The difference is that we didn't expect them to speak English. It was nice when they did - but we were guests in their country. Why should they speak my language? Or any second language? I accepted that it was my responsibility to find a way to communicate, not theirs.
How many hospitality industry staff in your town or city or country speak Czech? Any?
You had to pay for plates in restaurants? Never struck that one - but tell me, how much was the total bill? How did that compare to back home? Bloody cheap, wasn't it? What was the food like - ours was marvellous in Czech.
The Police had no reason to take your car? None at all? Yeah, right. I drove both times with a bright red "I'm a tourist" number plate, respected local laws, and when I made mistakes struck nothing but friendliness; apart from the Austrian tollway vignette police. Maybe lack of communication and attitude had a little to do with it? And you had to pay US$100 to get it back? Not much in those circumstances, hardly a dent in the overall cost of your trip and you're going to enjoy telling everyone you meet about it for years to come. Well worth $100. "Hey, did I ever tell you about those terrible corrupt cops in Prague?" "Yes, Grand-Dad, many times..."
Did you get someone to translate the papers that came back with it to see what it was you did?
Dangerous drivers? You obviously didn't go over the border to Poland.
Maybe next time you should just watch travelogues on TV at home. I've been to Budapest too, but I hope someday to get back to Prague again. One of my favourite cities.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
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Markku Grönroos - 12 Jul 2008 08:47 GMT "Alan S" <nothere@there.com> kirjoitti viestissä:4tig74pvhuj72ner9enqscqd2mn2p4so9l@4ax.com...
> But I never had a whole country or city that pissed me off > completely. > > Well, maybe Egypt; but the Pyramids and the Nile were still > marvellous. Egypt can be a true nuisance where foreigners congregate. Otherwise country is much more relaxed and friendly. The contrast is very sharp.
grusl - 12 Jul 2008 10:44 GMT >>Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do >>not [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > Sorry you had such a bad time. This is quite a shocking post! I thought Prague was the epitome of a modern Central/Eastern European destination; if anything, overtouristed. My relatives are trying to lure me to meet them there around Christmas.
> You had to pay for plates in restaurants? Never struck that > one - but tell me, how much was the total bill? How did that > compare to back home? Bloody cheap, wasn't it? What was the > food like - ours was marvellous in Czech. Your food was marvellous, but only in Czech?
Is the plate charge like "bread and covers" in Italy? Like a basic entrance or cover charge.
Cheers, George W Russell Bangalore
Alan S - 12 Jul 2008 11:06 GMT >>>Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do >>>not [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Central/Eastern European destination; if anything, overtouristed. My >relatives are trying to lure me to meet them there around Christmas. Listen to your relatives. Go and have a good time.
>> You had to pay for plates in restaurants? Never struck that >> one - but tell me, how much was the total bill? How did that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >George W Russell >Bangalore Sorry about the ambiguity. I was pointing out that the food that we ate in the Czech Republic was both inexpensive and marvellous.
The OP was the one complaining about being charged for plates. It didn't happen to me.
Cheers, Alan, Australia -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com Latest: On Indian Roads
grusl - 12 Jul 2008 11:30 GMT >>>>Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do >>>>not [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > The OP was the one complaining about being charged for > plates. It didn't happen to me. I was being facetious. However, sometimes cover charges are not always readily apparent.
My concept of Prague was that, if anything, it was being spoiled by tourism - especially weekend trips by alcoholically overindulgent visitors from a certain northwestern European country. I hadn't heard of tourists being ripped off anymore than in any European tourism destination.
Cheers, George W Russell Bangalore
Sarah Banick - 12 Jul 2008 16:39 GMT > This is quite a shocking post! I thought Prague was the epitome of a > modern Central/Eastern European destination; if anything, overtouristed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > George W Russell > Bangalore I think "overtouristed" is part of the problem. You've got glass shop next to money changers next to glass shop next to money changers....you get the idea.
I've been there several times and never had trouble communicating (a little German helps sometimes). But I did learn to be very attentive to the bill at meals and carefully count my change from any exchange. Like many places, the people are nice one-to-one, but there's that universal desire to skim a little off of rich foreign tourists (you're there right? You must be rich).
There's been a lot of news of pickpocketing, etc. I know you've dealt with all this before, George, and know how to prepare :-)
Frank Hucklenbroich - 16 Jul 2008 10:04 GMT Am Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:46:13 +1000 schrieb Alan S:
> You had to pay for plates in restaurants? Never struck that > one - but tell me, how much was the total bill? This is common in many countries, like Italy. You pay a certain amount for the plate, I think it's called "coperto"(sp?) and is something like 2 or 3 EUR per person.
Regards,
Frank
Alan S - 17 Jul 2008 04:40 GMT >Am Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:46:13 +1000 schrieb Alan S: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Frank Aha! The penny drops. It's the "cover charge". Common in many countries and should be accepted as just part of the bill. If in doubt and it worries you, ask. I learned to accept it in the same way as I learned to accept the USA 15-18% tipping system.
When in Rome...
Cheers, Alan, Australia -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com Latest: The Red Fort, Agra
Jesper Lauridsen - 30 Jul 2008 16:48 GMT > And of course very few spoke English; much the same as when > we wandered through Slovenia, Hungary, Slovakia or Poland. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > second language? I accepted that it was my responsibility to > find a way to communicate, not theirs. I don't consider it unreasonable to expect those working in the tourist industry to make an effort to be able to communicate with their clients.
> How many hospitality industry staff in your town or city or > country speak Czech? Any? The OP wasn't expecting service in his own language. He was expecting some service in a very widespread second language. For that language, the answer to your question is "pretty much all".
Igor Subotic [mikic] - 12 Jul 2008 09:00 GMT > Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do > not want to speak english or german or french. Very bad service. Dangerous [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and go to Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. > Bruno where did you go in prague? i was there 3x... and did not have any problems... ok, maybe some language difficulties.. in general, very nice place IMO maybe better then budapest?
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HBD - 12 Jul 2008 14:42 GMT Believe me, I've been all around the world. I'm not the kind of "turist" expecting all the time perfection for little money. I tried Russia, Hungary, Eastern Germany before and after the wall, Slovakia, Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, The Scandinavian Countries, Asia, Africa, Australia backpacking and more and even Ireland but I never experienced that before. I never felt like having to tell those bad experiences before......As I said, I'll never visit the Czech Republic again.
>> Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do >> not want to speak english or german or french. Very bad service. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > problems... ok, maybe some language difficulties.. in general, very nice > place IMO maybe better then budapest? Paul Dwerryhouse - 12 Jul 2008 23:38 GMT > As I said, I'll never visit the Czech Republic again. So, you're going to blackban an entire country because of your experiences in just one of its cities?
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HBD - 13 Jul 2008 07:02 GMT I drove through the whole contry and they almost killed us on their f***** motorways. Why should I spend more time and more money in a country that doesn't want me?
>> As I said, I'll never visit the Czech Republic again. > > So, you're going to blackban an entire country because of your experiences > in > just one of its cities? Alan S - 13 Jul 2008 07:18 GMT >I drove through the whole contry and they almost killed us on their f***** >motorways. >Why should I spend more time and more money in a country that doesn't want >me? No problem.
I'm sure they would entirely agree with you.
Cheers, Alan, Australia -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com Latest: On Indian Roads
John - 17 Jul 2008 17:45 GMT > I drove through the whole contry and they almost killed us on their > f***** motorways. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> experiences in >> just one of its cities? Well HBD, it's a shame you feel that way but at least if you stay away, then that's one less tourist for me to deal with when I go there :o)
Each year for the last 16 years, my wife and I have left our home in the UK to drive to the Czech Republic/Slovakia/Poland for our holidays and we absolutely love the country. We've only been to Prague twice though, preferring to explore the whole country - and believe me, it's well worth it.
We've found the Czechs to be warm and welcoming people. In 16 years of driving in their country I've only fallen foul of the police once (driving wrong way up a one-way street) and never even had so much as a near-miss on any motorway or other road.
The old phrase "cutting your nose off to spite your face" springs to mind here but, as I said, at least there'll be one less if you do indeed stay away.
John
Ex_OWM - 15 Jul 2008 20:40 GMT > Believe me, I've been all around the world. I'm not the kind of > "turist" expecting all the time perfection for little money. I tried > Russia, Hungary, Eastern Germany before and after the wall, Slovakia, > Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, > The Scandinavian Countries, Asia, Africa, Australia backpacking and > more and even Ireland Oy! What do you mean "even Ireland?
Derek McBryde - 12 Jul 2008 14:55 GMT >Just coming back from Prague. Lots of problems. People who cannot or do not >want to speak english or german or french. Very bad service. Dangerous [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Budapest. This is a nice city in a nice country. >Bruno Hmmmm not my experience. I have been to Prague twice, once during the summer and once in December. Both times I had a lovely visit.
I went mid week (to avoid the weekend stag-dos) and mostly avoided the obvious restaurants around Wenceslas Square. I don't imagine I would like Prague at the weekends during the summer.
Prague is still emerging from its communist past so to some extent the waiters and waitresses have still to learn how to deal with paying customers. I didn't find them unfriendly, but some could be aloof. I didn't take it personally. Not all spoke good english but many did.
The staff in the hotels were great, very helpful and friendly indeed. The hotels also were sparkingly clean.
Prague is very compact so it is very easy to get around and see all the sights, of which there are many. This makes it ideal for short visits.
I preferred Prague to Budapest. I found Budapest very much more impenetrable and it took me several days to get the feel of the city. It also took me a long time to work out where best to eat. It was only at the end of my week's vacation that I was beginning to sort out some nice restaurants.
Although I visited several Tourist information offices (and made special trips to some) I couldn't get a map anywhere showing tram and bus routes. I also tried at the ticket offices of the underground but I found english there was very limited. This was a problem because Budapest is very large and it takes a long time to walk to all the places of interest. Having said that, the underground is very easy to use and understand.
I was appalled at the graffiti in Budapest. The city is totally defaced and every pillar and post and wall is covered. The windows of the underground trains were all scored and scratched (ie not just paint that could be washed off).
Shopping is very good in Budapest and relatively inexpensive. There are several large malls.
There is plenty to do and see in Budapest (when you work out how to do and see it). Personally I found it very hard work, so the much needed rest didn't happen. Prague is much easier to manage and, in my opinion, much friendlier and much better.
Derek.
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