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Travel Forum / Destinations / Europe / July 2009Fast trains in Britain
Hello All! To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest scheduled long distance trains in Britain? Are there any other trains as fast as the Chunnel train? How is timekeeping on the fast trains?  SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > Hello All! > > To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest > scheduled long distance trains in Britain? Are there any other trains as > fast as the Chunnel train? How is timekeeping on the fast trains? The maximum permitted speed is 125mph but much track does not permit that speed. Two train types were built (or intended) to operate faster but they have never been permitted to achieve their higher speed. The Eurostar trains that operate London/Paris and Brussels via the Channel Tunnel have a maximum permitted 186 mph. Commuter trains using the same tracks are currently being used in limited service and will operate to a permitted maximum of 140 mph. James Silverton: > > To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest > > scheduled long distance trains in Britain? Are there any other trains as > > fast as the Chunnel train? How is timekeeping on the fast trains? Graham Harrison: > The maximum permitted speed is 125mph but much track does not permit that > speed. Two train types were built (or intended) to operate faster but they [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > tracks are currently being used in limited service and will operate to a > permitted maximum of 140 mph. All of this is correct, except that "much track does not permit" is perhaps a bit strong. There are three main lines in Britain today, all built originally for lower speeds, that have been upgraded to 125 mph speed limits: * East Coast Main Line, which leads north from London (King's Cross) to York, Newcastle, and Edinburgh. I'm not sure exactly how far north the 125 mph speed limit extends; maybe Newcastle. * West Coast Main Line, which leads north from London (Euston) and splits into different branches serving Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, and Glasgow. Only tilting trains are allowed 125 mph on this line, I believe from London as far as the Midlands (i.e. Birmingham, Manchester, etc.) and some sections on the Glasgow route. * Great Western Main Line, which leads west from London (Paddington) to Reading, Bath, Bristol, and Cardiff. I believe the 125 mph speed limit applies as far as Bristol. Trains capable of 125 mph are used on the services to Exeter, Plymouth, and Penzance, but only run at full speed on the short section as far as Reading. The 186 mph route from London (St. Pancras) south to the Channel Tunnel, now called High Speed 1, is much newer and was designed for that speed. Other main lines generally have limits around 80-100 mph. SignatureMark Brader "Inventions reached their limit long ago, Toronto and I see no hope for further development." msb@vex.net -- Julius Frontinus, 1st century A.D. My text in this article is in the public domain. > James Silverton: >> > To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Other main lines generally have limits around 80-100 mph. The speed limits keep changing, much as they do on a road. Thus, 125 mph is permitted from a few miles out of Paddington as far as just before Reading then again from the other side of Reading to Didcot and then the station is slower and it goes back to 125. Once you get to Wotton Basset Junction and bear off left for Chippenham, Bath and Bristol the limit is generally 100 or less. The same sort of pattern applies to the other two lines you mention. One of the key characteristics of trains built to run on "historic" lines is that however much upgrading has occurred they need high power (horsepower/kwh) to accellerate away from lower speed areas and station stops. Furthermore the three routes you chose represent a surprisingly small part of the network as a whole. hence my "much track does not permit" comment. And, to give a further example one of the major junctions on the West Coast Main Line is at Rugby. It has had the upgrade treatment and the speed limit through the station has been raised from 20 to 80mph so an upgrade doesn't always allow operation at 125mph. You are correct when you say that only the new "Pendolinos" on the WCML are allowed to run at 125 (where permitted) - other trains are limited to 110. A very recent rumour suggest some rumblings to increase the Pendolino limit to 135 in places (they were built for 140) but don't hold your breath! > A very recent rumour suggest some rumblings to increase the Pendolino > limit to 135 in places (they were built for 140) but don't hold your > breath! It's pretty much essential to hold your breath in a Pendolino, to avoid the smell of the toilets. Ian > To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest > scheduled long distance trains in Britain? They don't exist, is the simple answer to your question. The shortest journey time between, for example, London and Edinburgh (400 miles) by train is 4 hours 19 minutes. That's an average speed of (only) 92.6 mph. I think even Turkey now has faster trains than we do here in the UK (not to mention the rest of Western Europe). Are there any other trains as fast as the Chunnel train? Nope. How is timekeeping on the fast trains? Reasonable. Gerry >> To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest >> scheduled long distance trains in Britain? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >miles) by train is 4 hours 19 minutes. That's an average speed of (only) >92.6 mph. Only? Try travelling in Holland or from Holland to Munich SignatureMartin >>> To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest >>> scheduled long distance trains in Britain? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Only? Try travelling in Holland or from Holland to Munich OK, Amsterdam to Munich is approx. 520 miles Fastest journey time is 7 hours 26 mins (2 ICE trains via Frankfurt) Average speed = 70mph Point taken! But now look at:- Beijing to Shanghai = 914 miles in 9 hours 44 mins = 94 mph Moscow to St. Petersburg = 443 miles in 4 hours 30 mins = 99 mph Rome to Milan = 366 miles in 3 hours 26 mins = 107 mph Seoul to Busan = 292 miles in 2 hours 40 mins = 110 mph Tokyo to Osaka = 345 miles in 2 hours 33 mins = 135 mph Madrid to Barcelona = 390 miles in 2 hours 43 mins = 144 mph Paris to Marseille = 485 miles in 3 hours 2 mins = 160 mph That puts Britain's so-called "high-speed trains" into perspective. Gerry Gerry >>>> To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest >>>> scheduled long distance trains in Britain? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Average speed = 70mph >Point taken! Internally in the Netherlands you are lucky if the train averages 70km/hour. Now try Leiden to Munich. >But now look at:- > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >That puts Britain's so-called "high-speed trains" into perspective. The average speed in UK is much higher than the average in some other countries. The Dutch High Speed Line finally comes into use for the first time in September 2009 assuming there is not yet another problem. SignatureMartin <news:h2hidj$qus$1@aioe.org> : >>>> To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest >>>> scheduled long distance trains in Britain? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > That puts Britain's so-called "high-speed trains" into perspective. I don't know about the others, but the Madrid/Barcelona train is non-stop, whereas you change include a change on the Am/Muc train. SignatureTim C. ><news:h2hidj$qus$1@aioe.org> : > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >I don't know about the others, but the Madrid/Barcelona train is non-stop, >whereas you change include a change on the Am/Muc train. It doesn't seem to be possible without one change. Same distances all without changes Amsterdam Central -> Cologne HBF 2:38 no changes London -> York 1:58 Amsterdam Brussels 2:44 SignatureMartin >><news:h2hidj$qus$1@aioe.org> : >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > London -> York 1:58 > Amsterdam Brussels 2:44 What about London to Brighton in 4 minutes. Average speed 765 mph. Details at http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/history/interludes.htm SignatureJohnT >>><news:h2hidj$qus$1@aioe.org> : >>> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >at >http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/history/interludes.htm and it was already possible 50 years ago, but hushed up by MI5. How about Paris to Heathrow in 5 minutes with Mixi in overdrive? SignatureMartin > What about London to Brighton in 4 minutes. Average speed 765 mph. > Details at > http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/history/interludes.htm That's nothing. The French are doing it for real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir_n3J5ABA Signaturefish on a line learns to live on dry land thrown back in the water to drown we drown >> What about London to Brighton in 4 minutes. Average speed 765 mph. >> Details at >> http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/history/interludes.htm > >That's nothing. The French are doing it for real >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir_n3J5ABA I used to occasionally see a Waterloo Station-->Gare du Nord film shot from the driver's position which took a about five minutes. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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