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Travel Forum / Travel Types / RV Travel / July 2008Toilet questions
Years ago when the kids were young we had a popup Apache, but have not camped for 30 years. So the reason I started following this group is to learn more about trailers. And buy one in a year or so. I have some land where I built a garage/workshop with a bathroom and septic system. The intent is we may eventually build a house, but also use the camper there. Can a trailer toilet system be hooked to a septic system, and if so it seems some special connection would be needed to do this properly.  SignatureWes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please. spam@www.spam.com is a garbage address. >Years ago when the kids were young we had a popup Apache, but have not >camped for 30 years. So the reason I started following this group is to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Can a trailer toilet system be hooked to a septic system, and if so it >seems some special connection would be needed to do this properly. I have a "dumb" setup where I park my fifth wheel and it is tied in to my septic system. When I park I hook up just like an RV park. But remember you have to dump the black water tank just like you would any other time, meaning you keep the dump valve closed until the tank is at least two thirds full before you dump(I flush it also each time). YOU DO NOT LET THE TOILET TRY TO FLUSH STRAIGHT THROUGH THE HOLDING TANK because almost all of the solids will not flow to and through the drain. > Years ago when the kids were young we had a popup Apache, but have not > camped for 30 years. So the reason I started following this group is to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Can a trailer toilet system be hooked to a septic system, and if so it > seems some special connection would be needed to do this properly. Would the chemicals used to purdy up the smell cause any trouble with a septic tank's bacteria that breaks down the crap? Nate On Jul 17, 1:20�pm, "Nate" <nsaptaemcscpn...@nsvpbaemlslp.anmet> wrote: > > Years ago when the kids were young we had a popup Apache, but have not > > camped for 30 years. �So the reason I started following this group is to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Would the chemicals used to purdy up the smell cause any trouble with a > septic tank's bacteria that breaks down the crap? Put bacteria and enzymes in your RV holding tank, not perfumes and embalming agents. Your septic tank will appreciate bacteria and enzymes. :-) Jenny > On Jul 17, 1:20?pm, "Nate" <nsaptaemcscpn...@nsvpbaemlslp.anmet> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > embalming agents. Your septic tank will appreciate bacteria and > enzymes. Chuckle. Well made point. No embalming agents for me. Thanks. >:-) > > Jenny SignatureWes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please. spam@www.spam.com is a garbage address. > Chuckle. Well made point. No embalming agents for me. Thanks. It wasn't a joke, Wes. Many of the RV potty preparations contain formaldehyde. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >> Chuckle. Well made point. No embalming agents for me. Thanks. > > It wasn't a joke, Wes. Many of the RV potty preparations contain > formaldehyde. I realize that, but I had never heard the chemicals equated to embalming fluid which is what made me chuckle since the description was so apt. SignatureWes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please. spam@www.spam.com is a garbage address. >> Put bacteria and enzymes in your RV holding tank, not perfumes and >> embalming agents. Your septic tank will appreciate bacteria and >> enzymes. > >Chuckle. Well made point. No embalming agents for me. Thanks. Your septic tank won't GAS and if you think that it will, for God sakes, don't EVER use any bleach or ammonia or any other antibacterial. Amazing as it may seem, every time you take a dump you repopulate your septic tank with bacteria. How do you think they got there in the first place? Meanwhile my HOLDING tank does what it's supposed to do - it holds stuff. Without odor. Because it's embalmed. Me, it, my septic tank and my camping neighbors are all happy as clams in sauce. John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN Risk: $20 hooker, year old condom. >Put bacteria and enzymes in your RV holding tank, not perfumes and >embalming agents. Your septic tank will appreciate bacteria and >enzymes. I disagree. A holding tank is not a septic tank. It is made to temporarily hold waste, not digest it like a septic tank. Purdy up the smell anyway you can, and dump as soon as you can. Bacteria and enzymes won't help a bit. - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> Put bacteria and enzymes in your RV holding tank, not perfumes and >> embalming agents. Your septic tank will appreciate bacteria and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > hold waste, not digest it like a septic tank. Purdy up the smell anyway you > can, and dump as soon as you can. Bacteria and enzymes won't help a bit. They did for us. Also, if you are dumping your purtied up tanks into someone's septic, it can be harmful. One of the Escapees parks had its septic system die because of chemicals and laundry detergents. They made people buy a particular brand of laundry powder. If you didn't want to go out and purchase a whole box, they would sell you enough to do your wash there. They banned formaldehyde. Many RV parks we've visited, including the state of California, banned formaldehyde in holding tanks. We've also been in RV parks that have rules against using washer/dryers in the rigs. They have a larger septic system for their laundry room that can handle the water and soap, but the ones for the RV sewers couldn't. I think one of the reasons that I am so cautious with my home septic system is because of all I learned about them while RVing. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > I think one of the reasons that I am so cautious with my home septic > system is because of all I learned about them while RVing. Wow. I never give mine a second thought. It just keeps doing whatever it's supposed to be doing. We've never even used any of the "additives" that are supposed to keep the little critters in the tank happy. We have six bathrooms, a washer/dryer, a garbage disposal, a dishwasher, plus the RV all dumping into our tank with nary a hiccup. Stop talking about septic problems! It's bad Ju-Ju! Na-Na-Na, I can't hear you! Besides, the skeptical "Jersey" side of me makes me think that banning onboard washer/dryers in an RV park is more about collecting your quarters in the laundry room than concerns over sewer capacity. It's not my fault, I've been conditioned to think that way by years of exposure to New Jersey's "Culture of Collection". - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> I think one of the reasons that I am so cautious with my home septic >> system is because of all I learned about them while RVing. >Wow. I never give mine a second thought. It just keeps doing whatever it's >supposed to be doing. We've never even used any of the "additives" that are >supposed to keep the little critters in the tank happy. We have six >bathrooms, a washer/dryer, a garbage disposal, a dishwasher, plus the RV all >dumping into our tank with nary a hiccup. Agreed. Similar experience here -- and at the last two houses we lived in before this one. Never had any kind of problem with them. Janet just has a thing about septic systems. She doesn't realize how much waste they can handle -- especially in a new, three-bedroom house with only two occupants.... GB in NC >> I think one of the reasons that I am so cautious with my home septic >> system is because of all I learned about them while RVing. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >- Bill (El Alumbrado) We had what is called a 'dry well' septic system at on home. We used it to dump washer, disposal and 3 bathrooms. When we sold after 13 years we had to have the system pumped per the bew owner. The outfit came in, uncapped the system and could get a thing out of it. The guy was dumbfounded. --- $$$$$$$$$%% Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! >Many RV parks we've visited, including the state of California, banned >formaldehyde in holding tanks. We've also been in RV parks that have >rules against using washer/dryers in the rigs. They have a larger septic >system for their laundry room that can handle the water and soap, but >the ones for the RV sewers couldn't. Well that settles it then. A few nameless parks in California banned formaldehyde and wash detergents so it must be so. I've lived on septic systems for over 20 years. The only trouble I have had in that time has been caused by low bidder construction and previous owner stupidity. A well designed septic system should be transparent to the owner. About every 3 or 4 years get the solid tank pumped and the rest of the time ignore it. SignatureR.J.(Bob) Evans (return address needs alteration to work) http://travellingwithgeorge.blogspot.com/ >A well designed septic system should be >transparent to the owner. About every 3 or 4 years get the solid tank >pumped and the rest of the time ignore it. None of the ones we've had in various houses have ever needed to be pumped out. The ones in our previous two houses weren't pumped for over 30 years, I know for a fact. And a family with three kids lived in one of them for the ten years before we bought it. GB in NC >None of the ones we've had in various houses have ever needed to be >pumped out. I've had one that needed to be pumped out.... I clearly remember it because it was my wedding day, and the wedding was at home. Maybe it was an omen <g> Hunter >>None of the ones we've had in various houses have ever needed to be >>pumped out. >I've had one that needed to be pumped out.... > >I clearly remember it because it was my wedding day, and the wedding >was at home. > >Maybe it was an omen <g> LOL. Yeah, I'd have worried about that one.... GB in NC >They did for us. Also, if you are dumping your purtied up tanks into >someone's septic, it can be harmful. One of the Escapees parks had its [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I think one of the reasons that I am so cautious with my home septic >system is because of all I learned about them while RVing. All well and good but technically, the materials in a black tank do NOT decompose to any degree after one week, enzymes or not. Certainly the decomposition process begins but the natural enzymes occurring in poop are already at work. Formaldehyde had minimal affect on septic systems but massive amounts can cause problems. If people use recommended amounts when they know they will not be dumping for 4+ days, all well and good but if they put a load of "Super Blue Good Smell with Formaldehyde" every day, they are overdoing a good thing. We rarely use anything except at the end of travels and know we will be unlikely to use the potty for a while. I often go to the RV and sometimes need relief so a small amount is advisable. Otherwise use nothing or enzymes if you wish or Formaldehyde if you must, but a small amount of poop odor when the valve opens is more than bearable. Of course, this comes from a person that lived down wind from the second largest stockyards/packing house town in the country in the 40's-60's. --- $$$$$$$$$%% Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! > All well and good but technically, the materials in a black tank do > NOT decompose to any degree after one week, enzymes or not. Certainly > the decomposition process begins but the natural enzymes occurring in > poop are already at work. When I had my fivers I never dumped my black tanks in just a week. More like two weeks. One of the numerous things I disliked about the motorhome was the small (in comparison to my fivers) holding tanks. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > >Put bacteria and enzymes in your RV holding tank, not perfumes and > >embalming agents. �Your septic tank will appreciate bacteria and > >enzymes. > > I disagree. That's hardly unusual. > A holding tank is not a septic tank. Uh huh. > It is made to temporarily hold waste ... Uh huh. > ... not digest it like a septic tank. How can you say what it's _not_ made to do? Will you next tell me that coat hangers are made to hang coats, but not for all the other uses humans have devised? Are screwdrivers to be used only for driving screws? Is duct tape only for taping ducts? > Purdy up the smell anyway you can ... Ours has never smelled. Maybe you should use enzymes and bacteria like we do. Or maybe your diet is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY different from ours. Or your digestive system. Or your umbrado. Or something. > ... and dump as soon as you can. Perhaps you don't boondock much. With our 60 gallon black tank, we do -- and for long periods. > Bacteria and enzymes won't help a bit. They liquify instead of embalm, which helps keep the gauges clean. No big chunks of umbrado get stuck on our probes. And we aren't damaging the septic systems we dump into. Ever noticed the signs campgrounds put up about what NOT to put in their septic systems. Maybe it's just our sense of social responsibility. We're liberals, you know. > - Bill (El Alumbrado) ROTFLM6833AO !!! Jenny (who always loves to joust with El Um) >> Years ago when the kids were young we had a popup Apache, but have not >> camped for 30 years. So the reason I started following this group is to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Nate They would if they are chemicals. The best bet would to use a bacteria and enzyme product in the RV. That would not hurt the septic system SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >> Would the chemicals used to purdy up the smell cause any trouble with a >> septic tank's bacteria that breaks down the crap? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >They would if they are chemicals. The best bet would to use a bacteria >and enzyme product in the RV. That would not hurt the septic system When we picked up our used Casita, it had a stash of holding tank treatment chemicals. They worked very well, claimed to contain no formaldehyde, and further claimed to be safe for septic systems, what ever that means. (Maybe that meant that nothing would actually explode.) Anyway, I planned to restock before I used the last packet, but things got away from me, and now I don't even have an empty packet. I have no idea what the brand was. Whatever it was, the stuff came in a shiny metallic looking packet and consisted of blue crystals. I think the lettering was also blue, but I could not swear to that. Anybody recognize the brand? Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher > Anybody recognize the brand? Yup. I've been using it for 30 years. The stuff is made by Thetford under the brand name "Campa Chem". It comes in a white cardboard box with blue & green markings. Go to your nearest Wal-Mart and check one of the automotive aisles. They carry it. Should be about $6 for a box of 10 foil packets. - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> Anybody recognize the brand? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >- Bill (El Alumbrado) Thanks. That's the stuff. Although it looks like it would not be good for septic tanks after all, since it contains the preservative chemical Bronopol. Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher > "Bill" wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > for septic tanks after all, since it contains the preservative > chemical Bronopol. Perhaps so. Never-the-less, I have been using it for decades, emptying my holding tanks into my septic system with no ill effects (I have not pumped my septic tank in 20 years). The "green" stuff I have tried is by-and-large worthless for odor control. In this case it would seem that you can't have "effective" and "bio-friendly" in the same product. - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> "Bill" wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > worthless for odor control. In this case it would seem that you can't have > "effective" and "bio-friendly" in the same product. But a composting compound with biological odor masking compound seems like it should be possible even if no one makes it. Oh, yes, what is the opinion of the special toilet paper that is quite expensive versus regular toilet paper. Is it worth it in an RV? > - Bill (El Alumbrado) > > -- > Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service > ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------ > Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access SignatureWes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please. spam@www.spam.com is a garbage address. > Oh, yes, what is the opinion of the special toilet paper that is quite > expensive versus regular toilet paper. Is it worth it in an RV? Any brand of single-ply white paper will work just fine. I used Scott in our rigs for many years. I also use it in the house with the septic system. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > I used Scott in > our rigs for many years. I also use it in the house with the septic > system. That's John Wayne toilet paper isn't it? Rough and tough and won't take crap off nobody. <G> SignatureTommy Lee >> I used Scott in >> our rigs for many years. I also use it in the house with the septic [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Rough and tough and won't take crap off nobody. <G> They make a softer version. We don't have any problems with it. You must have a super-tender tush Janet Wilder <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in news:4882aaad$0$23073 $c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com: >>> I used Scott in >>> our rigs for many years. I also use it in the house with the septic [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > They make a softer version. We don't have any problems with it. You must > have a super-tender tush Nah, just old memories. That's all my grandmother used to buy, and I spent a lot of time there as a kid. SignatureTommy Lee > Oh, yes, what is the opinion of the special toilet paper that is quite > expensive versus regular toilet paper. Is it worth it in an RV? Skip the expensive "camper" stuff. Scott's single-ply (or generic equivalent) is just fine. Don't use a quilted, multi-ply, or scented product, though. It won't dissolve easily leading to all sorts of unpleasant consequences. - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> Oh, yes, what is the opinion of the special toilet paper that is quite >> expensive versus regular toilet paper. Is it worth it in an RV? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > - Bill (El Alumbrado) That's true but multi-ply doesn't seem to faze the macerator. LZ > Bill wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> > That's true but multi-ply doesn't seem to faze the macerator. Perhaps so. I've never had cause to use one. - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> Bill wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Perhaps so. I've never had cause to use one. I'm pumping 225 feet to the septic tank. LZ > - Bill (El Alumbrado) > > -- > Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service > ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------ > Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access > Bill wrote: >>> That's true but multi-ply doesn't seem to faze the macerator. >> >> Perhaps so. I've never had cause to use one. > > I'm pumping 225 feet to the septic tank. That would be cause to use one. - Bill (El Alumbrado) >>> Oh, yes, what is the opinion of the special toilet paper that is quite >>> expensive versus regular toilet paper. Is it worth it in an RV? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > That's true but multi-ply doesn't seem to faze the macerator. > LZ I use the same 2-ply in my TT that I use in my house. Never had a problem. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. > Lone Haranguer wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I use the same 2-ply in my TT that I use in my house. Never had a problem. See concurrent thread regarding "luck". - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> Lone Haranguer wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > See concurrent thread regarding "luck". Then I've had a long run of it - and I don't screw with things that ain't broke. Besides, my a.s chooses my TP - and my holding tank doesn't get a vote. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. bill horne <redydog@rye.net> wrote in news:02cb2679$0$26425$c3e8da3 @news.astraweb.com: > Besides, my a.s chooses my TP - and my holding tank doesn't get a vote. Now that's funny right there. I bet your a site in walmart on the TP aisle. SignatureTommy Lee > bill horne <redydog@rye.net> wrote in news:02cb2679$0$26425$c3e8da3 > @news.astraweb.com: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I bet your a site in walmart on the TP aisle. I wait until fat ladies are blocking both ends of the aisle. I never have to wait long. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. <snip> >Besides, my a.s chooses my TP - and my holding tank doesn't get a vote. Introduce your a.s to Bounce sheets. If you fold one correctly you can get 8 uses out of one sheet. Your a.s will thank you. -- Kevin W Miller Cogita tute http://www.bluemoongemworks.com/rv > <snip> >> Besides, my a.s chooses my TP - and my holding tank doesn't get a vote. > > Introduce your a.s to Bounce sheets. If you fold one correctly you can > get 8 uses out of one sheet. Your a.s will thank you. No thanks. I don't want my a.s to bounce. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >> <snip> >>> Besides, my a.s chooses my TP - and my holding tank doesn't get a vote. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No thanks. I don't want my a.s to bounce. I go to the gym to keep mine from doing that >>> <snip> >>>> Besides, my a.s chooses my TP - and my holding tank doesn't get a vote. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I go to the gym to keep mine from doing that I cut grass and keep Bounce off my a.s. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. > I cut grass and keep Bounce off my a.s. I cut the grass to keep my a.s from getting bounced. Max >>> Oh, yes, what is the opinion of the special toilet paper that is quite >>> expensive versus regular toilet paper. Is it worth it in an RV? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > That's true but multi-ply doesn't seem to faze the macerator. > LZ It would not bother a macerator, but might have a hard time getting to it. I would think that heavier tissues would be more prone to clogging. > . . . . . . Don't use a quilted, multi-ply, or scented >product, though. It won't dissolve easily leading to all sorts of unpleasant >consequences. Bull. Stick to a subject you know. All commercial TP dissolves easily. Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >> . . . . . . Don't use a quilted, multi-ply, or scented >>product, though. It won't dissolve easily leading to all sorts of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Stick to a subject you know. All commercial TP dissolves easily. As a self-appointed "Toilet Paper Engineer", I bow to your theoretical knowledge. However, in the real world, you're wrong. In this case there are demonstrable degrees of "easy". - Bill (El Alumbrado) >>> . . . . . . Don't use a quilted, multi-ply, or scented >>> product, though. It won't dissolve easily leading to all sorts of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > knowledge. However, in the real world, you're wrong. In this case there are > demonstrable degrees of "easy". My real world experience has Never consisted of a clog or white pyramid, and I've nearly Always used 2-ply (various brands) in the TT. Have you experienced either, and if so, what kind of TP was it? Also, my tank dumping rule has Always been: Dump at every opportunity. That means I've done a lot of tank dumping at less than a quarter of a tank - which is contrary to another rule frequently advocated in here. And I've Never had a black pyramid. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>> . . . . . . Don't use a quilted, multi-ply, or scented >>>> product, though. It won't dissolve easily leading to all sorts of [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >tank - which is contrary to another rule frequently advocated in here. >And I've Never had a black pyramid. Me too. 4+ years using various TPs and currently on 2-ply Angel Soft, unscented. We almost dump at each stop. even if only over night. Not always, tho. Still no problems. --- $$$$$$$$$%% Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! >>>>> . . . . . . Don't use a quilted, multi-ply, or scented >>>>> product, though. It won't dissolve easily leading to all sorts of [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > $$$$$$$$$%% > Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! It's my opinion that most of these black tank "problems" are little more than anal theory. Or the victims (if there really are any) are not drinking enough liquids. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >My real world experience has Never consisted of a clog or white pyramid, >and I've nearly Always used 2-ply (various brands) in the TT. Have you >experienced either, and if so, what kind of TP was it? My bride has a simple rule for buying TP - it has to be a.s friendly and cheap. Whatever fits that description goes in the toilet - in the house or in the bus, makes no difference. SignatureR.J.(Bob) Evans (return address needs alteration to work) http://travellingwithgeorge.blogspot.com/ >My bride has a simple rule for buying TP - it has to be a.s friendly >and cheap. Bob, I think a.s friendly cheap TP might be an oxymoron... Hunter >>My bride has a simple rule for buying TP - it has to be a.s friendly >>and cheap. > >Bob, > >I think a.s friendly cheap TP might be an oxymoron... You are welcome to your opinion but I have shared my opinion of your opinions often enough in the past that I don't think it is necessary to repeat it here. SignatureR.J.(Bob) Evans (return address needs alteration to work) http://travellingwithgeorge.blogspot.com/ >>My bride has a simple rule for buying TP - it has to be a.s friendly >>and cheap. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hunter Try White Cloud from Wally-World. It's both. > My real world experience has Never consisted of a clog or white pyramid, > and I've nearly Always used 2-ply (various brands) in the TT. Have you > experienced either, and if so, what kind of TP was it? One of the "Quilted Softer Kinds" some guests bought at a grocery in Menominee WI, because that's the brand they used at home. Clogged outlet pipe. Had to sacrifice a perfectly good wire hanger to get things moving again. Result was a "white pulpsplosion". It wasn't pretty. Here's a trick. Take two wads of TP, one multi-ply or quilted, and one single ply. Put each in an old mayonnaise jar or something similar. Add a few ounces of water. Screw on the lids and shale vigorously. I suspect you'll have one jar full of thin white milky emulsion (the single ply) and one jar of viscous white goo. > Also, my tank dumping rule has Always been: > Dump at every opportunity. Amen, brother. In a campground, every day. At the very least, every 3rd day, even when "boondocking". I don't want to create a little ecosystem in there, I just want it gone. > That means I've done a lot of tank dumping at less than a quarter of a > tank - which is contrary to another rule frequently advocated in here. And > I've Never had a black pyramid. Nor have I. Just the aforementioned "white clog". - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> My real world experience has Never consisted of a clog or white pyramid, >> and I've nearly Always used 2-ply (various brands) in the TT. Have you [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > you'll have one jar full of thin white milky emulsion (the single ply) and > one jar of viscous white goo. You "suspect", eh? So it's just another damtheory, eh? I'm ashamed to actually be doing this, but: I put some of my Charmin 2-ply Ultra Strong (to which my a.s has given full approval after it examined countless rolls) in a jar with water. Every minute or so, I gave it a few sidewise sloshes. At about 5 minutes, it was coming apart. At 10 minutes, there were too many pieces to count. At 15 minutes, there were more than too many pieces to count. This embarrassing testing confirms my experience - as I expected it to - and I conclude: Worrying about what TP to use in your RV is uselessly anal - as long as you use a commonsensical amount of water to flush, and your diet doesn't cause you to sh.t brown sponges. And for the record, Charmin 2-ply U-S has a serious BRF (breakthrough resistance factor), has sufficient absorbency to satisfy the most discriminating asswiper under any known viscosity condition (from bricks to broth), and has an undetectable chafe factor even under Mexican Two-Step and Jalapeño Afterburner events. So I say again, let your a.s do the choosing, and disregard all this RORT white pyramid and clog fear-mongering bullshit. Worry instead about finding yourself out in the boondocks, a load at the door, and discovering that you left your TP at home next to the mayonnaise jar. Bah. I'll never forgive myself for actually testing this bullshit, and giving it the respect that it richly doesn't deserve. >> Also, my tank dumping rule has Always been: >> Dump at every opportunity. > > Amen, brother. In a campground, every day. At the very least, every 3rd day, > even when "boondocking". I don't want to create a little ecosystem in there, > I just want it gone. I don't care about creating - or even evolving - an ecosystem - I just don't want to find myself 100 miles from a dump station and discover that my tank is full. Top off the water and dump the tanks at every convenient opportunity. That's my rule. It's worked flawlessly for 38 years. It ain't broke. I ain't gonna fix it. I've analyzed, and will continue as always. Y'all can analize and wring your hands and shake your mayonnaise jars if you want. But tonight, I shook my first, and last, mayonnaise jar. Note: In the interest of full disclosure of the testing protocol details, I must reveal here that I did not use a mayonnaise jar - I used a Ball Mason jar. So sue me. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >You "suspect", eh? So it's just another damtheory, eh? > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >So I say again, let your a.s do the choosing, and disregard all this >RORT white pyramid and clog fear-mongering bullshit. You done good. As usual, the Flaming One is wrong. Certainly there will be SOME differences in the rate and degree of decomposition, but unless you insist on using waxed paper to wipe, all TP's will disintegrate in the tank. Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >>You "suspect", eh? So it's just another damtheory, eh? >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill When we bought our new coach, a big warning came with the new toilet (Sealand by Dometic). Use any TP EXCEPT Charmin. Used Sealand toilets for years but never saw that before. Don't know why they excluded Charmin unless it is too soft....... George >>> My real world experience has Never consisted of a clog or white >>> pyramid, and I've nearly Always used 2-ply (various brands) in the [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > must reveal here that I did not use a mayonnaise jar - I used a Ball > Mason jar. So sue me. Uh oh! Since you used unapproved testing equipment, I'm afraid that the "peer reviewed" stamp will be denied. Personally I think the test proved conclusive but you know the rules. LZ >>>> My real world experience has Never consisted of a clog or white >>>> pyramid, and I've nearly Always used 2-ply (various brands) in the [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > Uh oh! Since you used unapproved testing equipment, I'm afraid that the > "peer reviewed" stamp will be denied. If the TP Terrormongers are considered my peers, then I'm proud it was denied. > Personally I think the test proved conclusive but you know the rules. > LZ Rules? I'm a confirmed scoffrule - I drive 8 over. In the left lane - even when I'm not passing. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>>> My real world experience has Never consisted of a clog or white >>>>> pyramid, and I've nearly Always used 2-ply (various brands) in the [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > If the TP Terrormongers are considered my peers, then I'm proud it was > denied. For that remark you were assigned negative points for your next test. >> Personally I think the test proved conclusive but you know the rules. >> LZ > > Rules? I'm a confirmed scoffrule - I drive 8 over. In the left lane - > even when I'm not passing. The scientific community looks askance at rule-breakers. Conform or be shunned.......that's the name of the game. LZ >> If the TP Terrormongers are considered my peers, then I'm proud it was >> denied. > > For that remark you were assigned negative points for your next test. I checked - I'm not bleeding. >> Rules? I'm a confirmed scoffrule - I drive 8 over. In the left lane - >> even when I'm not passing. > > The scientific community looks askance at rule-breakers. Conform or be > shunned.......that's the name of the game. This is not a scientific community - it's a guessic, speculatic, and bullshitic community. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>> If the TP Terrormongers are considered my peers, then I'm proud it >>> was denied. >> >> For that remark you were assigned negative points for your next test. > > I checked - I'm not bleeding. Just so you know why you got the low score on your next test. >>> Rules? I'm a confirmed scoffrule - I drive 8 over. In the left lane - >>> even when I'm not passing. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This is not a scientific community - it's a guessic, speculatic, and > bullshitic community. Yahbut RORT is mostly a pretend world or your testing would be considered a total waste of time. LZ >But a composting compound with biological odor masking compound seems >like it should be possible even if no one makes it. I once walked down the aisle at $CW$ and bought one of each offering to test. I went right back to my tried-and-true formaldehyde after several product tests resulted in severe cases of olfactory insult. >Oh, yes, what is the opinion of the special toilet paper that is quite >expensive versus regular toilet paper. Is it worth it in an RV? I guess that it depends a lot on whether your sh.t pipe goes straight down into your holding tank (most MHs) or if it winds around, traipsing over hill and dale before entering the tank (many 5th wheels). Probably also dependent on how much water you use with each flush. My SP has a direct shot into the holding tank so I use the same TP that I use at home Charmin unscented or whatever Sam's is selling in the bulk pack at the moment. I do make sure to fill the bowl with water when TP is to be flushed and otherwise make sure there is enough water in the black tank so that it'll slosh around and break up the hunks of TP and other stuff. I use a transparent 45 deg elbow on my dump hose. One can never be too observant :-) There is almost never anything that can be identified - just a stream of brown glop. I never find any of those shards of TP in the hose afterwards either. John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN What do you call 4 Blondes in an Abrams? Air Tank. >Perhaps so. Never-the-less, I have been using it for decades, emptying my >holding tanks into my septic system with no ill effects (I have not pumped >my septic tank in 20 years). The "green" stuff I have tried is by-and-large >worthless for odor control. In this case it would seem that you can't have >"effective" and "bio-friendly" in the same product. You're right but who cares? You don't want your HOLDING tank to become a septic tank. That is, unless you like the constant smell of sewer gas. Especially when you flush. A blast of gas from the tank up through the flush valve isn't pleasant. As they say about any other so-called toxic substance, "The devil's in the dose." By the time the tiny bit of bacteria control chemical hits the septic tank, it's so dilute and spent that it doesn't matter at all. I use the old fashioned blue formaldehyde liquid and have since I've been RVing. My septic tank is going on 40 years old and has never been touched. Even if it acts up tomorrow, I will consider its performance and that of my holding tank additive a success. Wes, back to your original question. You don't need to do anything special to mate your trailer to your septic system. Just don't skimp on water usage, especially in the beginning. That shouldn't be a problem if you have the trailer hooked up to water and use the normal amount of water for other chores. If you want to see just how well the two mate up, come up here to Green Cove. There are 4 RV lots, each with about 20 RVs and served with a separate septic tank. Everything works just fine. The motel is also on a septic system, though it tends to have an occasional problem caused by all the crap that people flush down motel toilets that don't belong there. I've heard of more than one shoe having to be fished out of the septic tank outlet to the leach field. John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN Why the US is losing its competitivve edge:"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."-James Niccol >>Perhaps so. Never-the-less, I have been using it for decades, emptying my >>holding tanks into my septic system with no ill effects (I have not pumped [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Especially when you flush. A blast of gas from the tank up through the flush > valve isn't pleasant. Why would you get a blast of gas? Isn't there a vent pipe through the roof that would prevent pressure buildup? Bear with me I am climbing a learning curve here. I did have a co worker long ago describing haveing to make an on the road repair to a gasket or flap on his toilet and chiseling rivets off with a wood chisel because he did not have a cold chisel. I think he made every repair on his RV himself, one talented guy. > As they say about any other so-called toxic substance, "The devil's in the > dose." By the time the tiny bit of bacteria control chemical hits the septic [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Why the US is losing its competitivve edge:"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at > producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."-James Niccol SignatureWes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please. spam@www.spam.com is a garbage address. >> You're right but who cares? You don't want your HOLDING tank to become a >> septic tank. That is, unless you like the constant smell of sewer gas. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >chisel. I think he made every repair on his RV himself, one talented >guy. Several reasons. The bacteria "working off" make heat and that causes the gases over the liquid to be warm. Heat rises and all that stuff. Also, when it's real hot outside and cool inside, the hot gases rise. The blast feels warm, whatever the reason. Other possible causes include having my stove vent hood or Maxxair fan running, reducing the pressure inside the rig. I'm sure that there is the same flow of gas whether the tank is 'working off' or not, it's just that when the formaldehyde stuff is in there, it doesn't have much odor. This stuff (I think it's Thetford too. Anyway I get it at Wallyworld) contains a strong deodorant in addition to the formaldehyde. JOhn -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN What do you call a blonde's cranial cavity? Vacuum chamber? >Years ago when the kids were young we had a popup Apache, but have not >camped for 30 years. So the reason I started following this group is to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Can a trailer toilet system be hooked to a septic system, and if so it >seems some special connection would be needed to do this properly. Aside from the other entries let me toss this in. Do you really need any chemicals? If daytime temps are running hot maybe you do. When it's cool daytime and cold nights I haven't used anything so far and don't see a problem yet. I did toss in a cup of Simple Green once before a ride and my gauges worked for that trip. My point is that if you are dumping every few days you may not need to add anything but water. You might want to add several gallons of that after every dump. Add the other chemicals if you get a problem. Only you can ultimately figure out if and when you need something. nothermark > Aside from the other entries let me toss this in. Do you really need > any chemicals? If daytime temps are running hot maybe you do. When [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > dump. Add the other chemicals if you get a problem. Only you can > ultimately figure out if and when you need something. Trust me, I have no reason to steer you wrong. If you're dumping only every few days, you're going to want some chemicals. You really are. No kidding. Really. If "blind" is the lack of a sense of sight, and "deaf" is the lack of a sense of hearing, what's the lack of a sense of smell called? - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> Aside from the other entries let me toss this in. Do you really need >> any chemicals? If daytime temps are running hot maybe you do. When [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If "blind" is the lack of a sense of sight, and "deaf" is the lack of a > sense of hearing, what's the lack of a sense of smell called? We have many full-timing friends who never put anything in their black tanks except water, poop, pee and TP. They never had an odor problem. We used a little bacteria and enzyme stuff in our fivers which had enormous black tanks. (80 gallons on one and 76 gallons on the other) We never had a problem with odor. When we got the motorhome with its much smaller black tank, we needed more powerful stuff. I bought some oxygen powered stuff that came in dissolvable packets at WalMart and it worked quite well. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life <snip> >If "blind" is the lack of a sense of sight, and "deaf" is the lack of a >sense of hearing, what's the lack of a sense of smell called? > >- Bill (El Alumbrado) Hamster? Oh, wait. That's a lack of a sense of taste... -- Kevin W Miller Cogita tute http://www.bluemoongemworks.com/rv ><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Hamster? Oh, wait. That's a lack of a sense of taste... Careful there, Kevin. Someone might think you're malone-ing them. >> Aside from the other entries let me toss this in. Do you really need >> any chemicals? If daytime temps are running hot maybe you do. When [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >- Bill (El Alumbrado) Anosmia. And before you ask, lack of taste is ageusia. Or perhaps crass. >>> Aside from the other entries let me toss this in. Do you really need >>> any chemicals? If daytime temps are running hot maybe you do. When [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >And before you ask, lack of taste is ageusia. Or perhaps crass. Thanks, I probaly have it. And I believe Bill and Janet even though they say somewhat different things. That is the richness of the group wisdom approach. Thinking people can get a lot of information on "how it's done" then workout what is best for them. In my case no matter what is in the tank there is a little smell in the bathroom that smells more like air freshener than anything else. If I leave the vent cracked the level falls under background levels. Coming from the two most likey directions to go we found free dumping within 20 miles of home so we dump there and come in empty. When we went off for a week I tried some orange bio stuff in the first tank then nothing with no discernable difference. FWIW - I think it's going turn out to be weather dependent. Bacteria and stink grow faster in hot weather. I'm working on the theory that if I dump every couple days I dump faster than the bacteria grow around here in cooler rainy weather. (We avoid hot weather as it makes more sense tostay home and use the pool that is only viable for 2-1/2 months a year.) I also think keeping 3-5 gallons of water in the 55 gal black tank keeps things more flushable. I'm working on whether or not it's worth dumping in a shot of detergent before a good ride to wash down whatever is inside there. It does seem to help the gauges. But as bill h says "Theory don't mean squat if it don't work." Play a little and see how much money you want to flush down the toilet. ;-) > I'm working on whether or not it's worth dumping in a shot of > detergent before a good ride to wash down whatever is inside there. It > does seem to help the gauges. But as bill h says "Theory don't mean > squat if it don't work." Play a little and see how much money you > want to flush down the toilet. Before I had experience, I used to add something or other to the black tank. My first experience came when I ran out of something or other, and didn't use something or other. Since then, I don't use anything or other. And as you've correctly surmised, I don't think much of all these clog and pyramid theories. However, I'll agree that if you do waterless craps in your toilet, and pee out in the bushes, the black tank probably won't empty very well. If at all. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >I'm working on whether or not it's worth dumping in a shot of >detergent before a good ride to wash down whatever is inside there. It >does seem to help the gauges. But as bill h says "Theory don't mean >squat if it don't work." Play a little and see how much money you >want to flush down the toilet. I'm not sure what a detergent treatment would do. Spotless tank walls and a sparkling dump valve? :-) The only treatment that I've ever done to mine was to add some of the bacteria additive that was automatically injected into my restaurant's grease trap every night. This stuff comes as a 5 gallon pail of solution and contains 3 genetically engineered bacteria. I forget what the other two do but the one that I'm interested in eats fast like a 300 lb woman at a fried chicken buffet! It converted my grease trap from something that has to be cleaned monthly (yuck! I'd rather deal with a black tank) to something that I could ignore. An automatic metering pump gave the trap a shot every night. A nightly shot was necessary because the bleach solution that we used to sanitize dishes after washing killed the friendly l'il bugs. *sob*. Anyway, the only reason that I did this was that I cook a lot while traveling and I was beginning to see a buildup of grease inside my tank. My shitpipe has a straight shot into the tank so I can see around in there. Especially if I drop in a 12 volt light on a cord. I flushed the tank a couple of times to get rid of the formaldehyde, then filled the tank with water after adding the bacteria solution. I let it sit for a week. When I drained the tank, viola! No grease. I could have probably accomplished the same thing by simply filling the tank with hot water from my home water heater. It was easier to dump in the bacteria since I already had it. No idea if the stuff that they sell in stores has the same bacteria. Unless you cook a LOT and that cooking involves a LOT of animal fat, I'd not worry about it. John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN If the letters PhD appear after a person's name, that person will remain outdoors even after it's started raining. >>I'm working on whether or not it's worth dumping in a shot of >>detergent before a good ride to wash down whatever is inside there. It [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I'm not sure what a detergent treatment would do. Spotless tank walls and a >sparkling dump valve? :-) I tried it because my gauge did not work. When I did it the gauge worked for that trip but is back to a false high reading so I will do it again next trip. I do not know what the actual sensing deviceis but I assume it is being fouled with either TP or the other solids. A half cup of simple green in 4 or 5gallons of water cleaned it so I may try just water and add the detergent if the gauge does not change. I am getting convinced that a couple of gallons of water after dumping is a good idea as the Thetford toilet we have does not dump much water with a flush. That way there is something in there to keep things flowing and sloshing. We are also learning to use the water only lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just before use and things don't stick to the toilet bowl as much. >The only treatment that I've ever done to mine was to add some of the bacteria >additive that was automatically injected into my restaurant's grease trap [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >John Interesting. It sounds like something similar to what we bought at Camping World when we picked up the unit. I always wondered if the microbe based cleaners worked that well. It sounds like they can. nothermark >>> I'm working on whether or not it's worth dumping in a shot of >>> detergent before a good ride to wash down whatever is inside there. It [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > nothermark If it's a plastic bowl wipe the bowl with Formula 303. Makes it slipperier SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > We are also learning to use the water only > lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just > before use and things don't stick to the toilet bowl as much. Good grief. I've done that since my first Porta Potti. It was intuitively obvious. I didn't know it was something that had to be learned. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >> We are also learning to use the water only >> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just >> before use and things don't stick to the toilet bowl as much. > > Good grief. I've done that since my first Porta Potti. It was > intuitively obvious. I didn't know it was something that had to be learned. You haven't heard about toilet training? LZ >>> We are also learning to use the water only >>> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You haven't heard about toilet training? > LZ But in my case that was done when I was too young to remember it. Maybe that's why it seems to be something that didn't have to be learned. Bruce >> We are also learning to use the water only >> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just >> before use and things don't stick to the toilet bowl as much. >Good grief. I've done that since my first Porta Potti. It was >intuitively obvious. I didn't know it was something that had to be learned. LOL. I am reminded once again of the walk-through given by the good-ol'-boy tech at the dealership where we bought our used Class B nearly ten years ago. He was stressing the importance of putting water into the bowl before "sitting down." His exact words were (and I will never forget it as long as I live), "Dry dookie don't flush." That pretty well sums it up. GB in NC >>> We are also learning to use the water only >>> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > GB in NC Well, then. Ahem. If they have to stress it at dealerships, I may have overestimated the common sense level of the average Thetford user. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>> We are also learning to use the water only >>>> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Well, then. Ahem. If they have to stress it at dealerships, I may have > overestimated the common sense level of the average Thetford user. Salesmen can usually tell how dumb the prospect is. LZ >> His exact words were (and I will never forget it as long as I live), >> "Dry dookie don't flush." >> >> GB in NC >Well, then. Ahem. If they have to stress it at dealerships, I may have >overestimated the common sense level of the average Thetford user. Perhaps you overestimated the common sense level of the average RVer. Even without the advice I believe I'd have known better than to drop a load into a dry toilet, but maybe that's just me. Anyway, I got the distinct impression that wasn't the first time he'd said it. It sounded like a routine part of his spiel. There must have been a reason. GB in NC >>> His exact words were (and I will never forget it as long as I live), >>> "Dry dookie don't flush." [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >GB in NC It's not dry. When you pull the dump lever the water lever goes to so you use a small amount of water. The problem is that there is enough to dump a liquid load but not solids or TP. It is not intuitively obvious to non technical folks that adding water before use increases the efficiency of the flush. Took me about one dump. I think I may have convinced the other user. Well maybe. ;-) >>>> His exact words were (and I will never forget it as long as I live), >>>> "Dry dookie don't flush." [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > obvious to non technical folks that adding water before use increases > the efficiency of the flush. This is not a "technical" thing. > Took me about one dump. Then your intuition tank needs a fluid change. I think I may > have convinced the other user. Well maybe. ;-) Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>>> His exact words were (and I will never forget it as long as I live), >>>>> "Dry dookie don't flush." [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >I think I may >> have convinced the other user. Well maybe. ;-) nah, just made the mistake of trusting the toilet manufacturer to KISS it. >> We are also learning to use the water only >> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just >> before use and things don't stick to the toilet bowl as much. > >Good grief. I've done that since my first Porta Potti. It was >intuitively obvious. I didn't know it was something that had to be learned. The "water only" handle was NOT obvious on my toilet, as it is nested inside the flush handle. It WAS intuitively obvious that the bowl needed filling before taking a dump but before I discovered the little water handle, I was doing it with the shower hose. That's the way it HAD to be done in my previous rig because the toilet didn't have a water lever. John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. -Marie Curie >>> We are also learning to use the water only >>> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >John BTW, when I bought the trailer, I made a little adjustment right away to my shower, which you may like. I replaced the showerhead with a multi-spray head intended for yard use. It has a series of outlets from needle to sweep to volume flush to gentle sprinkle. It has a grip valve so the only time it's on is when I'm gripping it. Saves lots of water, makes cleaning up the shower and the toilet a snap. Also, it's amazing what a little extra pressure will do for the lower back. I added enough hose to reach out the door. Makes cleaning off muddy shoes a cinch. Total cost was under ten bucks. Bob >>> We are also learning to use the water only >>> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > doing it with the shower hose. That's the way it HAD to be done in my > previous rig because the toilet didn't have a water lever. The china RV toilets we had had a single pedal. You pulled it up to fill the bowl and pushed it down to flush. To this day,one of us will get up in the middle of the night and will wiggle a foot looking for that pedal <g> >>> We are also learning to use the water only >>> lever to preload flushes according to need. Add some water just [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > doing it with the shower hose. That's the way it HAD to be done in my > previous rig because the toilet didn't have a water lever. I wasn't talking about handles - I was saying it's always been obvious to me that a toilet should have water in it Before you flush it. Preloaded. I have no opinion on whether it should be |
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