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Travel Forum / Travel Types / RV Travel / July 2008Air conditioner problem
Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp socket in the garage. The AC ran fine for about 10 minutes and then tripped the circuit breaker in the trailer. After a couple minutes I could reset the circuit breaker, and then tried it again. It did the same thing. We went through this cycle about four times. And then, about the fifth time, the thing ran fine - for several hours until turned off that evening. Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the service section isn't open on the weekends. TIA! > Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a > Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > TIA! 20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service.  SignatureFrank Howell >> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. >>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major > rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. I might have spoken too hastily. How are you plugging your trailer in, by extension cord? My moterhome needs 30 amp service for everything to work. I had an electrician put an outside receptacle on the side of the garage that was supplied by a 30 amp breaker from the house breaker box. When I tried running the A/C from a 20 amp receptacle it would trip with A/C on. Now it could have been an undersized extension cord. with your situation it could be the same. SignatureFrank Howell >> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. >>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major > rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. There is nothing wrong with your new tt. Try plugging into another plug. Your kitchen is probably more amps than a regular garage plug, which is likely 15amps rather than 20.(chech your house fuse/breaker panel to find a 20 or 30 amp circuit) Use a high quality cord to connect. (if the extention cord feels warm, it is too light/cheap/ dangerous to use) There is nothing wrong with your new tt. It is possible that some power is also being diverted to charge batteries. When running the a/c , leave the lights, radio, etc turned off There is nothing wrong with your new tt. Power management is a new task to learn. >>>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >There is nothing wrong with your new tt. >Power management is a new task to learn. Damn, I was gone all day and came back to find a bunch of posts about my problem. As I said, the circuit breaker in the trailer is the one tripping, not the one in the house. The garage has a 20 amp circuit breaker in the box, and it's not tripping at all. Today air conditioner in the tt ran most of the day with no problem. I'm wondering if they have to undergo a 'break in' period. > Today air conditioner in the tt ran most of the day with no problem. I'm > wondering if they have to undergo a 'break in' period. Probably to run in the bearings and unstick the seals. It sat unused for months. I think it is a non-problem, but may be due to battery charger or another appliance kicking in. You probably were playing with every switch like the kids on Christmas morning. (grin) >> Today air conditioner in the tt ran most of the day with no problem. I'm >> wondering if they have to undergo a 'break in' period. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >kids on Christmas morning. >(grin) Well, there is that to consider! > Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a > Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > TIA! John H. Try a Real Heavy Duty (like 12AWG) extension cord before you get to very much farther. WARNING - Story Follows... This is a common problem with the window units we sold. When it occurs, the next thing you ask is "Is your new unit on a dedicated circuit?" Typical answer... "Well it's the only thing plugged into that outlet." me - "How close is that outlet to the window?" "Real close" - Right! me - "Is it less than 3 feet?" The cords were all about 4-1/2'. "Not quite" - Right Again!! me - "Did you buy the Real heavy duty extension cord we offered?" "No we have enough extension cords." Yeah - Right! me - "If that extension cord less than 5feet long does not say 14AWG on it, or is less than 12feet long and does not say 12AWG on it somewhere, then (yes, I will repeat that) locate one that does. If the problem persists, we will be glad send a service man to your home. If an undersize extension cord or service is the problem, you will be charged for the service call as that is not a warranty issue. (It's been a few years (decades), but that is pretty close.) I do recall one calling back for service. That was a defective unit (bad starting cap), we gave him a new unit. The problem is that a 15amp circuit will usually start a 12k+BTU unit, but once the are running pressures established, the starting load gets enough higher that the line voltage sag from the hard start makes the unit draw too much power for too long and the breaker trips. BTDT Matt Colie >> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > >Matt Colie I'm using that big cord that came with the trailer. Supposed to be able to handle 30 amps. The AC has been working fine since shortly after I posted the message. Thanks for the reply though! >>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Thanks for the reply though! This can be an amazing place. You can fix a problem by simply posting it and forgetting it. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >This can be an amazing place. You can fix a problem by simply posting it >and forgetting it. Wow! So my converter will be charging my batteries later today? How long do I have to forget after posting? Tom >> This can be an amazing place. You can fix a problem by simply posting it >> and forgetting it. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Tom I don't know. There may be unknown contributing requirements that you haven't met. I didn't get a government grant to fabricate that conclusion, you know. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>> This can be an amazing place. You can fix a problem by simply posting >>> it and forgetting it. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > haven't met. I didn't get a government grant to fabricate that > conclusion, you know. Seems like a new grandchild is required, too, somehow. Maybe for an offering to the charger Gods. Mary >>>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >This can be an amazing place. You can fix a problem by simply posting it >and forgetting it. LOL! > Damn, I was gone all day and came back to find a bunch of posts about my > problem. As I said, the circuit breaker in the trailer is the one tripping, > not the one in the house. The garage has a 20 amp circuit breaker in the > box, and it's not tripping at all. This is the key. If the breaker in the garage tripped, it would mean not enough amps. But since it's the breaker in your RV, it means low voltage and the breaker tripped to save the AC unit. Most likely, it's the extension cord. > Today air conditioner in the tt ran most of the day with no problem. I'm > wondering if they have to undergo a 'break in' period. No, no break in required. Camille SignatureCamille C. Pronovost Where in the world are Ed & Camille? http://ProtechRVTravel.blogspot.com/ I GoodSearch for The Sierra County Humane Society. Visit www.DesertHavenAnimalRefuge.com Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! >> Damn, I was gone all day and came back to find a bunch of posts about my >> problem. As I said, the circuit breaker in the trailer is the one tripping, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >and the breaker tripped to save the AC unit. Most likely, it's the >extension cord. Sorry, but that logic is _just_plain_wrong_. AMPS are the same _everywhere_ in the circuit. Circuit breakers trip based on the amps flowing through them, period. John didn't specify the rating on the breaker in the trailer that was tripping. It _could_ be as small as a 15 A one, since the rated Full Load draw for the A/C is 14 amps. It is, however, more likely to be 20A rated, and it happens to be just 'a bit more sensitive' than the one in the house. While it IS TRUE that an undersized and/or overly long extension cord can cause problems, here is what happens -- the cord has 'non-trivial' internal resistance, whih appears 'in series' with the A/C compressor load. Resulting in lower voltage at the A/C. The A/C needs a certain amount of _power_ to run, and, because of the lower voltage, the current level must be higher. This higher current has to flow through _all_ parts of the circuit -- you see a higher power (volts * amps) draw (*and* a higher voltage) at the house side of the extension cord than you do at the A/C compressor, because some power is being dissipated as heat in the extension cord, HOWEVER, the amps are the *same* at both places. Excessive amps will trip trip _any_ breaker who's rating was exceeded, *regardless* of where it is located. (Naturally, only the 'most sensitive' breaker is going to trip -- as soon as _it_ does, the overload (if any) is removed from any other breakers, and there is no longer anything to cause them to trip. In John's situation, the 'normal' peak draw on compressor *re-start* (under load) could be very close to the rating of the breaker in the TT. At that point, it only takes a -little- additional 'drag' to push the compressor motor over the breaker limits. There *are* a number of 'little things' that _could_ be going on with a compressor that is new/unused and/or has been sitting unused for an extended period that =might= contribute some additional 'drag' load on the motor. These include (in no particular order): 1) some bearing lubricants 'stiffen up' if left undisturbed for extended periods. It can take a while for them to soften up again, when the device is used. 2) Some A/C systems use the refrigerant as a means to carry lubricant to various parts of the system. It is possible that a 'just charged, never run' system is low on lubricant at some points. 3) some kinds of bearings are _built_ "a little rough" with the expectation that initial use will self-polish them appropriately for the exact situation they are in. 4) the "semi-permeable plug" could have been a bit crudded up, and it took some time forcing refrigerant through it to get the proper degree of permeability. (A 'too much closed' plug results in higher back-pressure when the compressor tries to re-start, requiring excessive power from the compressor, which translates to 'higher than expected' power draw.) John, ===== a fairly simple way to test the possibility of a shore-power problem. Get a _voltmeter_, and hook it up to 120V anywhere in the trailer. Turn the A/C on, and let it run for at least 10-15 minutes. then kick the thermostat up to where the compressor cycles _off_. wait _one_minute_, and put the thermostat back down to where the compressor was running. The compressor will probably _not_ start immediately (many need 3-5 minutes for a restart). WATCH the voltmeter for when the compressor _does_ kick in and see how far the voltage sags. A few volts is nothing to worry about; a big drop -- in the 10-15 volt (or more) range (probably accompanied by noticeable dimming of any lights that are on) -- *DOES* point to a problem with the shore power.` possibilities include: dirty plugs/sockets, undersize (for it's length) extension cord, undersize house wiring itself, etc. >>>> The AC ran fine for about 10 minutes and then tripped the circuit >>>> breaker in the trailer. >Try plugging into another plug. Your kitchen is probably more amps than a >regular garage plug, which is likely 15amps rather than 20.(chech your house >fuse/breaker panel to find a 20 or 30 amp circuit) Use a high quality cord >to connect. (if the extention cord feels warm, it is too light/cheap/ >dangerous to use) Ahhh, dudes. He said that the breaker in the RV tripped and not the one inside. Read closely the sentence I left up there. He doesn't need to find another outlet. The one he's plugged into is doing fine. John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN If stupidity hurt then there'd be Aspirin in the salt shakers. >>>>> The AC ran fine for about 10 minutes and then tripped the circuit >>>>> breaker in the trailer. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Tellico Plains, Occupied TN > If stupidity hurt then there'd be Aspirin in the salt shakers. It could well be low voltage during hot weather when everyone in the neighborhood is running air conditioning flat out. Recently, we had our house air conditioner replaced. It was hot, so I turned on the air conditioner in the RV to have a cool place to go to. The alarm on the line voltage went off and the voltage was running about 109 volts. Mrs. A had a fit with the alarm sounding so I ran the generator instead of hooking to the 30 amp circuit. The generator needed the exercise anyway. I did kill the grass under the generator, though. John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee >Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major >rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. You're not rewiring the trailer... you're rewiring the receptacle and power box in the house.... Or.... was it plugged into a gfi circuit? If so, it probably didn't like that. Either way, the trailer is fine... 20amps isn't enough power. Hunter > Or.... was it plugged into a gfi circuit? If so, it probably didn't > like that. Mebbe. GFCI is code now for garages here. ( also kitchen and bath) >>Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major >>rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Hunter Actually, it's marginal. I use 20 amp. Most of the time it works. But I better not turn on the microwave or the hot water heater at the same time, or use any power in the garage. Another possibility is that the breaker in his garage is old, and tripping at a lower amperage than it is rated. Anyhow, like you said, there's nothing wrong with the trailer, at least as you can tell from this symptom. Bob You should be able to run a 13,500BTU A/C on a 20 amp circuit, just don't try running the microwave and any other high-draw electric at the same time. There's 5 reasons the A/C would trip the breaker prematurely: 1) Problem witht he A/C unit like strained compressor or fan motor 2) You didn't wait long enough after the last time the compressor kicked in. Compressor need several minutes to re-equalize the freon pressure (good compressors have a delay circuit, Dometics don't) 3) Low line voltage and/or undersized extension cord (most "heavy-duty" extension cords are rated for 12amps max) 4) The breaker is failing 5) The breaker is too warm. We found this one out the hard way. We had 30amp service, good line voltage, and low amp draw, but it still tripped randomly. Turns out a mouse had tried to build a nest in the cooling fan for the converter/fuse/breaker assembly. Since the breakers are the cheaper "thermal" type, the A/C breaker was getting so warm, it would trip at much lower than it's rated 20amps. Steve >>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major > rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. >>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major >rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. 1. New wiring for the larger current capacity is the correct answer. YMMV. If you are asking here you probably should not violate wiring code. 2. Is the air conditioner the only load? It sounds like the circuit may run it or some other load like the refrigerator compressor but both on at the same time blows the breaker. Any other loads on the system? 3. I might change the 20 A breaker - I have seen more than 1 that trips at a lower current, especially if it has been tripped many times. You can swap it with a different one in your panel to try it assuming you are comfortable working in a power distribution panel. nothermark >>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>> service section isn't open on the weekends. >>20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. >Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major >rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. I'm no electrical expert, by any means, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But I believe he means you need 30 amps in the house, in the circuit you're plugging into. But that may not be the case. If you have a dedicated 20-amp circuit (or at least nothing else running on it at the same time) AND a heavy-duty cord that's not too long, you may be fine. I used to run my Class B's 11,500 BTU a/c on a 15-amp circuit when we lived in our previous house. No problem at all. I used a 14 gauge 20' cord. However, it sounds to me as if the problem may be in the RV rather than the house circuit. Like there may be something else on the same circuit in the RV that's turning on and off, causing too great a load when it comes on. Was there anything else (other than the converter) turned on in the RV? Refrigerator, maybe? GB in NC >>>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>>> service section isn't open on the weekends. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >GB in NC Several times, when this happened to me, I found I had inadvertently turned on the electric element in the water heater. Combined with the AC compressor, that'll trip the 20 A power from the house. > Several times, when this happened to me, I found I had > inadvertently turned on the electric element in the water heater. > > Combined with the AC compressor, that'll trip the 20 A power from > the house. I'm willing to bet he's using a extension cord that's too light for the load. When I bought my first camper I *tried* to use a 50' orange extension cord with an adapter to step down from the trailers 30 amp male plug. It would run the air for a few minutes then trip the breaker. I broke down and purchased the proper RV extension cord and never had a problem after that. >>>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>>> service section isn't open on the weekends. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > GB in NC I sincerely doubt that that is the problem. Every RV that I've ever seen had the AC on its own circuit---for just that reason, I might add. I think his problem is that he is plugging his trailer into a 20 or 15 amp outlet and the AC requires a 30 amp source. A 13,500 BTU unit takes a lot of power in the heat of the day. When things cooled down, late in the day, he was able to run the AC on the lower power source because it was not working so hard. Even I, the electrically challenged, understand not to run an AC when there is less than 30 amp service---and unless you have a power monitoring system that automatically does the switching, you don't run 2 ACs without a 50 amp hookup (or the gen set) >I sincerely doubt that that is the problem. Every RV that I've ever seen >had the AC on its own circuit---for just that reason, I might add. Agreed. But one never knows what changes a previous owner might have made, for whatever reason. >Even I, the electrically challenged, understand not to run an AC when >there is less than 30 amp service--- Don't say "never" (I know, you didn't, exactly <g>). I did it full-time for four years when we lived in the mountains. Kept my van, parked in the driveway, plugged into a 15-amp circuit inside. It never tripped the breaker. And yes, I did check the cord for heat. I also kept an eye on the voltage (I have, and use, both a Good Governor and a Kill-o-Watt). Again, though -- I want to point out that mine is an 11,500 BTU model, and that does make a difference. But yeah, 15 amps did fine with it on a 14-gauge, 20' cord. And I could (and often did) turn on the refrigerator and lights too. It's okay to run it off that circuit, if it'll run it (with "good" voltage and the right cord, I mean). GB in NC >> I sincerely doubt that that is the problem. Every RV that I've ever seen >> had the AC on its own circuit---for just that reason, I might add. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > GB in NC How big was the air conditioner unit? That does make a difference. When we had the pick up camper,it had a small unit on it (probably the same size as your van's) That unit ran just fine on a 20 amp plug-in which very well might have only been delivering 15 amps. One must take in to account the size of the AC unit (BTUs) >> Again, though -- I want to point out that mine is an 11,500 BTU model, >> and that does make a difference. But yeah, 15 amps did fine with it on a >> 14-gauge, 20' cord. And I could (and often did) turn on the refrigerator >> and lights too. >> >> GB in NC >How big was the air conditioner unit? That does make a difference. When >we had the pick up camper,it had a small unit on it (probably the same >size as your van's) That unit ran just fine on a 20 amp plug-in which >very well might have only been delivering 15 amps. One must take in to > account the size of the AC unit (BTUs) You must not have read the above quoted paragraph. GB in NC >>> Again, though -- I want to point out that mine is an 11,500 BTU model, >>> and that does make a difference. But yeah, 15 amps did fine with it on a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > GB in NC Must be hot in TX right now, and Janet needs a bigger extension cord. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >> You must not have read the above quoted paragraph. >> >> GB in NC >Must be hot in TX right now, and Janet needs a bigger extension cord. Would you say her clutch is slipping? Aw, go on, say it. GB in NC >>> You must not have read the above quoted paragraph. >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Would you say her clutch is slipping? I would, but this time, a bioelectrical problem seemed more likely. > Aw, go on, say it. > > GB in NC Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>>>> service section isn't open on the weekends. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > I think his problem is that he is plugging his trailer into a 20 or 15 > amp outlet and the AC requires a 30 amp source. It does not. > A 13,500 BTU unit takes > a lot of power in the heat of the day. When things cooled down, late in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > monitoring system that automatically does the switching, you don't run 2 > ACs without a 50 amp hookup (or the gen set) Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>>>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>>>>> service section isn't open on the weekends. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > It does not. Another van person with a smaller unit chimes in. >>> I think his problem is that he is plugging his trailer into a 20 or 15 >>> amp outlet and the AC requires a 30 amp source. >> It does not. >Another van person with a smaller unit chimes in. Janet, you're just not paying attention. First, bill doesn't even have a 110v a/c in his van. He *does* have a TT, which he referred to in an earlier post in this thread: >All I can say about this is that I have 13500 btu A/C, and had a similar >problem. I have a 20 amp outlet, and was using a 12-3 extension cord. >The A/C would run for awhile, and then pop the breaker in the house - >not in the TT. I replaced the extension cord with a 10-3, 20 amp one, >made a 20 amp to 15 amp pigtail so that I could still use the 15 to 30 >amp adapter I already had. It's worked fine ever since. Your blanket statement above that an a/c (presumably the OP's 13,500 BTU unit, although you didn't specify that) *requires* a 30-amp circuit is simply not true. Nobody has said a 30-amp circuit might not be better (although I'm not sure how or why, as long as the thing works and doesn't overheat anything). But it certainly isn't *required.* GB in NC >>>>>>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>>>>>> service section isn't open on the weekends. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Another van person with a smaller unit chimes in. bill's right. I've been running my AC units on my Class A for 10+ years on a 20 amp fuse and a 100 foot heavy gauge (#10) cord. Both at the farm and at the cabin. Popped 2 fuses in that time, both when plugging in a heavy duty appliance when the AC was running. LZ >>>>>>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>>>>>> service section isn't open on the weekends. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Another van person with a smaller unit chimes in. You're not paying attention, Janet. The OP has a 13500 btu unit, and I have a 13500 btu unit in my TT - and that's what I've been talking about. So..... it still does not. And will not. I have a van. And a TT. And 2 tents. And a blue tarp. And a camo tarp. How's that for eee-leeet, hey? Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >I have a van. And a TT. And 2 tents. And a blue tarp. And a camo tarp. >How's that for eee-leeet, hey? Elite, heck. I think you're 2 tents. You need to relax. GB in NC >> I have a van. And a TT. And 2 tents. And a blue tarp. And a camo tarp. >> How's that for eee-leeet, hey? > > Elite, heck. I think you're 2 tents. You need to relax. > > GB in NC If I had less tents, I'd be asleep. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. > I think his problem is that he is plugging his trailer into a 20 or > 15 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > late in the day, he was able to run the AC on the lower power source > because it was not working so hard. Janet, I just have to chime in. Read my conclusions and what DuroTherm says is required to run the 13,500 Brisk Air. ******************* What original poster said: Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp socket in the garage. The AC ran fine for about 10 minutes and then tripped the circuit breaker in the trailer (NOTE: He said in the trailer) ****************************************************** Specs from Dometic: Duo-Therm Air Conditioners Brisk Air 13,500 Btuh · Amps 14.0 cooling (at 95 degrees ambient), 12.7 Heating w/optional heat strip (NOTE: 14 amps at 95 degrees) · 3 years parts warranty. 2 years labor warranty. Be sure and turn in warranty card. ****************************************************** Now, if that air conditioner needed a 30 amp circuit breaker to run, it would be tripping the breaker in the garage. IT'S NOT!! It draws less than 15 amps at the full voltage that is coming from the garage. It's tripping the one in the trailer. There can only be 2 causes since it worked after several tries. Cause 1: Voltage drop because the extension cord is too light weight. He needs a 12 gauge wire extension cord if he can reach the trailer cord with a 25 foot extension. If it takes a cord longer than 25 feet, he needs a 10 gauge wire cord. Cause 2: Faulty 20 amp breaker in the trailer. (Not likely since it eventually ran for hours.) My conclusion: I believe he was using a light weight extension cord when he 1st plugged in the trailer and the inverter/charger was charging the batteries, thus lowering the voltage because of the voltage drop through the light weight extension cord, which increased the amperage draw of the air conditioner. When the batteries finished topping off, the charger shut down, the voltage increased, the amperage required to operate the air conditioner dropped and everything is normal. Where am I wrong? Tom J >> I think his problem is that he is plugging his trailer into a 20 or 15 >> amp outlet and the AC requires a 30 amp source. A 13,500 BTU unit [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Where am I wrong? Ask yer wife! She's always willing to tell you where you are wrong... at least mine is... ;^) Mike >>>>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>>>> service section isn't open on the weekends. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >monitoring system that automatically does the switching, you don't run 2 >ACs without a 50 amp hookup (or the gen set) The trailer is plugged into a 20 amp outlet, which is the same amperage as the circuit breaker in the trailer. Now it's a mute point. The AC has been running fine for the past three days. I'm feeling like Peter, the wolf guy. >Now it's a mute point. In other words, we don't need to talk about it any more, right <g>? GB in NC >>>>>> Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the >>>>>> service section isn't open on the weekends. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Now it's a mute point. The AC has been running fine for the past three > days. I'm feeling like Peter, the wolf guy. Or Freddy Kilo, the watt guy. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >Or Freddy Kilo, the watt guy. Or maybe Reddy Kilo, the *real* watt guy. GB in NC >> Or Freddy Kilo, the watt guy. > > Or maybe Reddy Kilo, the *real* watt guy. > > GB in NC Oh yeah. damn me all to hell. And back, please. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. <snip> >> Now it's a mute point. The AC has been running fine for the past >> three days. I'm feeling like Peter, the wolf guy. > > Or Freddy Kilo, the watt guy. Or Gautama Buddha, the ohm guy. SignatureKevin W. Miller http://www.bluemoongemworks.com/rv/index.asp > Now it's a mute point. The AC has been running fine for the past > three > days. I'm feeling like Peter, the wolf guy. John, you still had a problem with the air conditioner. At this stage, if you are not qualified to do it, I would take it back to the selling dealer, tell them what happened, and ask them to check all the wiring connections on the air conditioner circuit to see if something is loose or may be where it can short. Those units don't require a break-in run like some autos. Tom J >> Now it's a mute point. The AC has been running fine for the past >> three [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Tom J That I will do. We'll be going down that way in a couple weeks and I'll have him check it out. Good advice. Thanks. >>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major > rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. NO! That means you should use the 30 amp service that the RV is designed to be on. the A/C unit can pull quite a bit of the 20amps and when your other systems cycle in it overloads the 20amp. You could have the refrig on electric and the water heater could also be on electric and when the inverter kicks in to top off your DC system's batteries it will also draw amps. There are several other things that will need some of that 20amps. SignatureBILL P. & DOG >>>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > draw amps. There are several other things that will need some of that > 20amps. What ever you do, do not replace the 20amp circuit breaker (cb) with a 30amp one. The wire size coming off of the cb leading to the receptacle must be large enough to carry the added amps. SignatureBILL P. & DOG >>>>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>>>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >30amp one. The wire size coming off of the cb leading to the receptacle >must be large enough to carry the added amps. Thanks. I won't. The thing is working well now. >>> You could have the refrig >>> on electric and the water heater could also be on electric and when the >>> inverter kicks in to top off your DC system's batteries >Thanks. I won't. The thing is working well now. You probably already know this, but the device that charges your house batteries is not an inverter. It's a converter -- or more specifically, the charger portion of a converter/charger. GB in NC >You probably already know this, but the device that charges your house >batteries is not an inverter. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >GB in NC Or, in my case, it's called dead.<g> Tom >>It's a converter -- or more specifically, the charger portion of a >>converter/charger. >> >>GB in NC >Or, in my case, it's called dead.<g> Perhaps even inverted <g>. GB in NC >>>It's a converter -- or more specifically, the charger portion of a >>>converter/charger. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >GB in NC No, unlike me, it's still upright. Tom >>Perhaps even inverted <g>. >> >>GB in NC >No, unlike me, it's still upright. I'm inclined to accept that. GB in NC >>> Perhaps even inverted <g>. >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > GB in NC Maybe he's grand. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>> Perhaps even inverted <g>. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Maybe he's grand. Used to be. Not any more. Tom >>>>> Perhaps even inverted <g>. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Used to be. Not any more. And clearly not a spinnet-ster. :) >>>> Perhaps even inverted <g>. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> GB in NC >Maybe he's grand. Are you acting in concert with him? GB in NC >>>>> Perhaps even inverted <g>. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > GB in NC Ho ho ho, oh bo. I'm an inveterate soloist - but I'll do a capella with an ocotillo. When I'm out West. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >Ho ho ho, oh bo. I'm an inveterate soloist - but I'll do a capella with >an ocotillo. When I'm out West. Just don't get involved in any gratuitous sax and violins. GB in NC >>20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. > > Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major > rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. You misunderstood...the dealer doesn't have to buy anything. You are connecting to a 20 amp breaker which is not enough to run your air. You need to connect to a 30 amp connection. In other words, there is nothing wrong with your camper...you cannot run the camper on 20 amps if you wish to run your air. You need to hire an electrician to wire a 30 amp outlet in your garage. >In other words, there is nothing wrong with your camper...you cannot run the >camper on 20 amps if you wish to run your air. You need to hire an >electrician to wire a 30 amp outlet in your garage. Not necessarily. Please see the other replies in this thread. GB in NC >>> 20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. >> Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > camper on 20 amps if you wish to run your air. You need to hire an > electrician to wire a 30 amp outlet in your garage. TA Da!! We have a winner. It amazes me how some people over-think a problem. >>>> 20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. >>> Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> camper on 20 amps if you wish to run your air. You need to hire an >> electrician to wire a 30 amp outlet in your garage. >TA Da!! We have a winner. It amazes me how some people over-think a >problem. Janet, please read the reply I just now posted elsewhere on this thread. Thanks. GB in NC >>>> 20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. >>> Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > TA Da!! We have a winner. It amazes me how some people over-think a > problem. Bull. What you have is an over-engineered solution. My 13500 A/C will run as long as I want on a 20 amp outlet. But I had to get a bigger extension cord. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>>> 20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. >>>> Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > run as long as I want on a 20 amp outlet. But I had to get a bigger > extension cord. Yabut what other electrical appliances can you turn on? SignatureFrank Howell >>>>>> 20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. >>>>> Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Yabut what other electrical appliances can you turn on? I have a power pedestal located in the very back of my 5er. It is in the center about 18" square. it serves as a nick-nack table bet5ween the two lounge chairs. It houses the Inverter and power distribution panel where all the circuit breakers are. It also has an the telephone jack and a 15amp plug. I installed another plug, 20amp and connected it to the air conditioner circuit breaker. I use it for a small heater, that pulls about the same power as the air conditioner, obviously you would not be running both of them at the same time. SignatureBILL P. & DOG > I have a power pedestal located in the very back of my 5er. It is in the > center about 18" square. it serves as a nick-nack table bet5ween the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > pulls about the same power as the air conditioner, obviously you would > not be running both of them at the same time. Same thing I did with my '88 Itasca. Plus I put an outlet on the driver's side (in an outside compartment). LZ LZ >>>>>> 20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. >>>>> Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Yabut what other electrical appliances can you turn on? Now you've over-engineered the question. Signaturebill Theory don't mean squat if it don't work. >>>20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >camper on 20 amps if you wish to run your air. You need to hire an >electrician to wire a 30 amp outlet in your garage. Well, luckily my daughter had a baby and I didn't get to this message until after the AC had been running well for a couple days. It's running fine now, on the 20 amp circuit in the trailer and the 20 amp circuit in the house. >It's running fine now, on the 20 amp circuit in the trailer and the 20 amp >circuit in the house. I did that for a little while. One day I was walking by the house receptacle where the RV plug adapter was plugged in. I ran my hand over it, and it was HOT! I now have a 30 amp circuit dedicated to the RV. I will not put my family in that jeopardy again. Knowledge is power. 30 or 50 amp power. Tom >I did that for a little while. One day I was walking by the house >receptacle where the RV plug adapter was plugged in. I ran my hand [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >family in that jeopardy again. >Knowledge is power. 30 or 50 amp power. Believe me, I checked my cord and connections often, back when I was plugged into a 15-amp circuit. Never an indication of a problem. Now I have 30-amp hookups in three places -- two outside and one inside that can also be accessed from outside if needed. GB in NC >>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>> circuit breaker, and then tried it again. It did the same thing. We >>> went through this cycle about four times. >>20 amp service is not enough. You need 30 amp service. > >Does that simply mean a new circuit breaker, or are we talking major >rewiring? I wonder if the dealer will buy that. 20 amp service is fine. If it wasn't, my MH with a similar AC would not be working right now, as it is plugged into a 20 amp convenience outlet. As I recall, the 13.5Kbtu AC draws about 12 amps. Look in your book to be sure. If it's on a 15 amp breaker like mine is, it'll occasionally trip. Especially in very hot weather. If this is a brand new (as opposed to "used but new to you") rig than I'd not get excited until and unless it does it again. It could be a slightly weak breaker. Or the compressor simply breaking in. Or slightly high or low line voltage. Or very hot weather. Or the combination of the three. Do you have an amp-clamp or any other means of measuring current? If not, you should have. Even a $20 Kill-A-Watt to plug the RV into would do. If you use a KAW you'd want to read the amps before and after starting the AC and subtracting the difference. This kind of intermittent problem, if it is a problem, is one that your dealer can't address simply because he can't duplicate the conditions that you have at your house. Either it has to turn into a permanent problem (breaker trips every time) or you have to find the problem. I'm betting that there isn't a problem and this is just part of the unit breaking in. Let it run for a few days and see what happens. John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN If stupidity hurt then there'd be Aspirin in the salt shakers. >>>> Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>>> Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >John It must have been a 'break in' problem. The thing has been turned on and off for the past three days without missing a beat, and it's been in the 90's every day. > Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a > Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp socket in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > TIA! How are you hooking up the TT to the outlet in the garage? If your extension cord is not large enough for the load, you will get an excessive voltage drop to the TT when the AC is on causing this problem. The best thing to do is to get a voltmeter and check the voltage at an outlet in the TT when the AC is on. If it below about 105V, it will cause the compressor to overheat. Mike >How are you hooking up the TT to the outlet in the garage? If your >extension cord is not large enough for the load, you will get an excessive [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Mike Few TT refrigerators have compressors. --- $$$$$$$$$%% Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! >> How are you hooking up the TT to the outlet in the garage? If your >> extension cord is not large enough for the load, you will get an excessive [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Few TT refrigerators have compressors. Yahbut ACs do. LZ > --- > > $$$$$$$$$%% > Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! >>> How are you hooking up the TT to the outlet in the garage? If your >>> extension cord is not large enough for the load, you will get an excessive [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Yahbut ACs do. >LZ D'oh. Gotta learn to read. I hate it when I get caught being dumb. Happening more and more all the time. --- $$$$$$$$$%% Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! >Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp socket in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the service >section isn't open on the weekends. Is anything else running on the same circuit? (I don't mean off the same receptacle.) If so, that could explain why it ran at some times and not at others. GB in NC >Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp socket in >the garage. There's your problem,3it was to be plugged into a 30 amp plug. >The AC ran fine for about 10 minutes and then tripped the circuit breaker >in the trailer. After a couple minutes I could reset the circuit breaker, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Any ideas? I haven't had a chance to call the dealer yet, and the service >section isn't open on the weekends.> Change your electric box and plug to 30amp.... Remove two 15s and put in a 30. Beef up the wire and get a plug that your trailer plugs right into....without an adapter. You can get everything at Home Depot for less than 20.00 unless you need a lot of wire. DO NOT make it a 220... it's still 110. Hunter >There's your problem,3it was to be plugged into a 30 amp plug. Good grief, thought I'd had a stroke when I read that.... "It wants" to be plugged...... Hunter >>Yesterday we fired up the air conditioner on our new TT. The AC is a >>Dometic, Brisk Air, 13,500 btu. The TT is plugged into a 20 amp socket in [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Hunter I would not automatically suggest just anyone attempt to go poking around in his breaker box. If he doesn't watch what he's doing, he may zap himself. >I would not automatically suggest just anyone attempt to go >poking around in his breaker box. If he doesn't watch what he's >doing, he may zap himself. I didn't mean for him to actually do it, just meant it to be a caution about not making it a 220. Hunter >I didn't mean for him to actually do it, just meant it to be a caution >about not making it a 220. Which as you well know <g>, is something you have to keep hitting some electricians over the head with until they finally "get it." GB in NC >Which as you well know <g>, is something you have to keep hitting some >electricians over the head with until they finally "get it." Yeah, I well know... Someone invited me to stay at their place last week, I said thanks but I really want 30 amp service so I can run the a/c and my stuff... She said, not a problem, her husband can plug me in where the dryer is.... Hunter )c: >>Which as you well know <g>, is something you have to keep hitting some >>electricians over the head with until they finally "get it." [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Hunter )c: After our "plumbing malfunction," the water extraction contractor had rigged up a box that plugged in to the dryer outlet in my house. Mine is a three wire system and is tied in to two 30 amp breakers strapped together.. After looking at his rig and doing a little cogitating, I figured out how to make a box that would hold a 30 amp RV plug hooked to one leg of the dryer circuit and (probably) two 15 amp plugs tied into the other leg. Since the three wire dryer circuit has no ground, one would need to get a ground from another cord that plugged into a standard outlet, but would just use the ground wire in that circuit. This is probably a violation of some code or the other, but it would be safe. I haven't picked up the parts yet but I think I will build one just to have. Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher >After our "plumbing malfunction," the water extraction contractor had >rigged up a box that plugged in to the dryer outlet in my house. Mine [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I haven't picked up the parts yet but I think I will build one just >to have. What you're planning will work but it's not necessary. Your AC draws about 12 amps. Look at your manual to be sure but that's ballpark. In a tiny trailer like that, there is little else to draw power. A couple of amps from the converter maybe. A small microwave perhaps. Unlikely that you'd use that in your driveway. I've spent many a night (and sometimes week at a time) plugged into a 20 amp outlet. Never tripped one yet. As a precaution I do flip my AC off while microwaving but that might not be necessary - I've never measured. If you're tripping a 20 amp breaker then most likely the breaker has gotten weak. That happens. For some reason high humidity seems to be a cause. The sub-panel that is mounted in my basement where it used to drip with humidity would regularly suffer weak breakers. Until I installed a dehumidifier, that is. Changing the breaker is a lot cheaper and more convenient than making that lash-up and then plugging and unplugging it every time you need to use the dryer. I have to express my concern about making a 240 adapter using a 3 prong plug outlet. While it will work it will force the safety ground to carry current continuously. There are several potential problems. One, many older installations used cable that had two heavy conductors and one small ground conductor. If your dryer outlet is like that then the ground conductor may not be large enough. Removing the cover of the dryer outlet will quickly let you determine that. Of more concern is the fact that if some fault develops in the ground wire - corrosion or a loose connection, the safety ground on your RV can have line voltage on it. Remember that the ground wire normally carries no current and so a fault might not be evident. I'd not have much concern and wouldn't say anything if the adapter was for inside use. Wood flooring, shoes, etc., provide enough insulation that you'd probably not get more than a tingle. Outside, though, you'll be touching the RV while standing on dew-wet grass or whatever. If you really want to use the dryer outlet then you might look at one of these transformers: http://www.110220volts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=110220v olts&Category_Code=Up-DownTransformer For little more than the bits and pieces necessary to make your adapter would cost, you can buy a 1.5 or 2 kVA transformer. The transformer will let your safety ground do what it's supposed to do - be a safety. I've recommended this vendor to EV drivers who needed to run a 240 volt battery charger from 120 volts. They report that the product is of high quality and works as advertised. If it were me, I'd do nothing. The 20 amp outlet is fine. John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever. >>After our "plumbing malfunction," the water extraction contractor had >>rigged up a box that plugged in to the dryer outlet in my house. Mine [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > Tellico Plains, Occupied TN > Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever. You eluded to this but It must be emphasized. You need neutral and ground for ground fault protectors to do their job properly. Without a ground there is potential, during a ground fault, for the camper frame and all metal components attached to it to carry voltage waiting only for a ground to appear (which could be you) to complete the circuit. I don't want to rely on a GFCI detector to disconnect the mains while I am providing the ground circuit. >You eluded to this but It must be emphasized. >You need neutral and ground for ground fault protectors to do their job [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >circuit. I don't want to rely on a GFCI detector to disconnect the mains >while I am providing the ground circuit. I agree. The rig the contractor had cobbled together had the three wire dryer cord plus a single green wire hooked to a separate standard plug to get a ground from a nearby standard grounded outlet. The thing worked fine. The contractor needed all of the capacity he could get out of my house wiring because he was running eight dehumidifiers and about a dozen or more honking big fans as well as running the AC all of the time. My electric bill went through the roof. But the cobbled up rig allowed him to hook several units into the two 30 amp circuits from the dryer outlet. Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher > You eluded to this but It must be emphasized. > You need neutral and ground for ground fault protectors to do their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to complete the circuit. I don't want to rely on a GFCI detector to > disconnect the mains while I am providing the ground circuit. John might have eluded a reference to proper grounding but I think you meant alluded. Max (neener, GB) >John might have eluded a reference to proper grounding but I think you >meant alluded. > >Max (neener, GB) No "neener" needed. I can use some help here sometimes <g>. I was gone for a few hours (picking up my wife at the airport). I can't sit at my keyboard *all* the time. I'm too close to that as it is. GB in NC >>John might have eluded a reference to proper grounding but I think you >>meant alluded. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > GB in NC Ok. I'll be your backup. Max >Ok. I'll be your backup. Hey, if you see one before I do, grab it <g>. Won't hurt my feelings a bit if you beat me to it. GB in NC >> You eluded to this but It must be emphasized. >> You need neutral and ground for ground fault protectors to do their job [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Max (neener, GB) Can't have enough spelling cops. But do get GB to properly deputize you. >You eluded to this but It must be emphasized. ^^^^^^ "alluded |
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