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How to get rid of ants

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Art Todesco - 28 Jul 2008 13:27 GMT
We've been seeing a few ants here and
there in the MH, however, all of a sudden
there were many.  They were going after
the cat kibble on the shelf (class C)
above the driver's seat.  We fixed that
by putting the kibble dish in a baking
pan with a little Pam sprayed on the
outside (a friend recommended that).
Now we need to be more proactive.  I
have heard of boric acid and have
seen it discussed here or on other news
groups.  What have all you seasoned
veterans done?  BTW, we are in the NC
mountains and are not used to this
type of problem being from the Chicago
area.  We are moving here, so I guess
when the house is finally built, we will
become experts fast.

Also, we will be leaving the MH at a
friend's property while we return home
for a few weeks.  We will be removing
all the food stuff.  Any other suggestions
for keeping insects and critters out?

Thanks,
Art
william boyd - 28 Jul 2008 14:09 GMT
> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all of a
> sudden
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Thanks,
> Art

I would suggest to say you need to first block their entry rout as much
as possible. Then as you have indicated, get rid of all food stuff. Then
put bait out that will get did of those that are in and get in. I have
heard of corn meal works for ants, but I would think this would just be
feeding roaches. For blocking their entry points, that construction foam
works real good.
I searched the internet for an example of what I was talking about on
the Construction insulating foam in small aerosol cans but could not
find it. It can be seen around the pipes in your sub bay area. I was
able to get it at Lowe's building supplies.

Good luck :-)

Signature

Posted by HOPPIE, 30 Years Active Duty ,11 Campaigns Vietnam, 100% DAV,
 Life Member; Am.Lgn,DAV,VFW,AFSA,VVA.

MTV - 28 Jul 2008 15:00 GMT
http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/ants.htm

We've have very good results with the Maxforce ant gel.

Marv

> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all of a
> sudden
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Thanks,
> Art
Neon John - 28 Jul 2008 16:59 GMT
>http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/ants.htm
>
>We've have very good results with the Maxforce ant gel.

Funny that this would come up now.  I've been doing a long term research
project up here in Green Cove based on a research paper I found last spring
that dealt with controlling German yellow jackets.  The area has been invaded
with German yellow jackets (nests above ground and are meat eaters instead of
sweets).  What the locals call "piss ants" (tiny red stinging ants) have also
become a serious problem.

The research paper addressed the use of Fipronil, a very long delayed acting
poison, to control yellow jackets.  The procedure was to have a group of grad
students walk shoulder to shoulder across a large, multi-acre mixed field and
wooded area, finding and counting yellow jacket nests (such is the life of a
grad student :-)

Next bait stations were prepared and set out at intervals around the area.  In
a month, the walk was repeated.  All nests within about a 500 yard radius of
each station were wiped out.  In fact, the entire survey area was almost clear
of nests.

Based on that and based on the degree of infestation here (every other deck
seemed to have a nest under it), I decided to set up my experiment.  Most
everyone is familiar with Fipronil but don't know it.  It's the active
ingredient in FrontLine flea control product.  Grossly over-priced, of course.

I didn't know whether all the yellow jackets were American or German so for
each bait station I set up two baits, one was cherry preserves and the other
canned cat food.  To about 100 grams of each I added the amount of FrontLine
that would cling to the tip of a toothpick. (sorry, no micropippets available)
I added a touch of water and made a thick slurry.

In one location I set up a camera and time lapse timer and photographed the
bait every 5 minutes over a 2 day period.  I never saw more than 2 yellow
jackets on the cat food and none on the preserves.  That was enough.

Bottom line - the Green Cove area is now almost completely yellow jacket-free.
The other residents think that I did some sort of FM :-)

Back to ants.  There has been a piss ant colony under the general store for
years.  They emerge from one crack or the other every so often and raid the
garbage or the sweets aisle.  Royal PITA.  Based on the yellow jacket success,
I set up another experiment.  This time I used honey diluted with water so as
not to be so sticky as to trap the ants.  I dipped just a little more than the
tip of a round toothpick in FrontLine and mixed it in the honey-water and put
the mixture on a shallow foam saucer that had the rim cut down so that the
edge almost touched the floor.

Within a day the ant were on that bait like stink on ... Well, you know :-)

It's been about 2 weeks and all evidence is that the colony is gone.  I've set
up more honey bait stations outside where ants have been seen in the past and
they've been ignored.  No ants visible. I'm ready to declare success.

What is unique about Fipronil is that it has no odor or taste in the
concentration used.  According to the research paper, yellow jackets are very
particular and are repelled my most other insecticides.

FrontLine is obscenely expensive but Fipronil is available in large quantities
for much more reasonable prices.  I have some of this currently on order:

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/termidor-sc-p-184.html?gclid=CLWtj87hn5QCFQlqs
goddFN7tQ


I'll be testing it to make sure none of the inert ingredients repel yellow
jackets.

Fipronil is available in higher concentrations as a planting-time worm control
insecticide used with corn.  Nominally, a pesticide license is required to buy
it, though I've found out that this is only a small obstacle.

This chemical highlights EPAs irrational pesticide rules.  In the form of
FrontLine, the stuff is put ON your pet INSIDE your house.  In the form of
Termidor (about the same concentration) the labeling SCREAMS not to use it
indoors.

I have a feeling that this might just be one of the best long persistence
roach killers around.  I'm going to find out.  One of the roach gels has
Fipronil in it (Combat, I think but can't recall) but I'm looking at something
that I can spray the baseboards with.  The roach gel dries out within a month
and becomes useless.

When the Termidor arrives, I'm going to be testing it with a yellow jacket
attractant, the little capsules that come with those yellow yellow jacket
traps.  That should draw them in from much farther away than mere cat food.

Before I forget, many thanks to my friend Bruce Bowen who turned me on to the
paper.

More info on german vs American yellow jackets.

http://www.cisr.ucr.edu/german_yellowjacket.html

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
It isn't Global Warming.... It's Jerry Falwell arriving in hell.
Bob Giddings - 28 Jul 2008 17:25 GMT
>>http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/ants.htm
>>
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
>
>John
What happens if one of your pets ingests it?
Neon John - 28 Jul 2008 23:42 GMT
>On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:59:39 -0400, Neon John <no@never.com>

>>When the Termidor arrives, I'm going to be testing it with a yellow jacket
>>attractant, the little capsules that come with those yellow yellow jacket
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>What happens if one of your pets ingests it?

Considering that I put FrontLine on my cats every month during the summer and
FrontLine has about the same concentration of Fipronil as the Termidor, and
considering how much they lick themselves, nothing happens.

The FrontLine patent describes the process of the carrier material spreading
the Fipronil all over the animal's body within a day or so, so the kitties
certainly ingest it.  

Judging by the MSDS LD50/rat numbers, if this stuff wasn't labeled an
"insecticide", it could be labeled non-toxic to warm blooded beings, given
that the rats have to practically drown in the stuff.

Incidentally, the secret carrier material in FrontLine seems to be propylene
glycol.  That's what it feels and tastes like (yeah, I live on the edge,
tasting the tips of toothpicks containing poison :-) and its properties match
the description given in the patent.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Better remain silent and be thought a fool than to cite Wikipedia and remove all doubt.
Bob Giddings - 28 Jul 2008 23:48 GMT
>Incidentally, the secret carrier material in FrontLine seems to be propylene
>glycol.  That's what it feels and tastes like (yeah, I live on the edge,
>tasting the tips of toothpicks containing poison :-) and its properties match
>the description given in the patent.
>
>John

Lol.  Forget the poison.  The CARRIER will kill them.

All in the dose, I suppose.
Technobarbarian - 29 Jul 2008 16:31 GMT
>>On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:59:39 -0400, Neon John <no@never.com>
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> "insecticide", it could be labeled non-toxic to warm blooded beings, given
> that the rats have to practically drown in the stuff.

   It looks like the biggest problem with this idea isn't pets--it's bees.
All of the government approved formulations combine the Fipronil with
something that isn't attractive to bees or call for it to be used in ways
that aren't likely to affect bees. Mixing Fipronil with a sweet bait could
cause problems for neighbors with bee hives or any nearby commercial bee
activity. France has banned Fipronil because of problems it caused for bees.
Off label use of pesticides is also illegal in this country.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/7/usc_sec_07_00000136---j000-.html

   I've gotten good results controlling Yellow Jackets with a simple trap
like this one, using the water from canned tuna fish for the bait:
http://www.amazon.com/Victor-M362-Quart-Yellow-Jacket/dp/B001A3QDBQ/ref=pd_bbs_s
r_8?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1217343561&sr=8-8


TB
Neon John - 29 Jul 2008 19:20 GMT
>    It looks like the biggest problem with this idea isn't pets--it's bees.
>All of the government approved formulations combine the Fipronil with
>something that isn't attractive to bees or call for it to be used in ways
>that aren't likely to affect bees. Mixing Fipronil with a sweet bait could
>cause problems for neighbors with bee hives or any nearby commercial bee
>activity.

It's been a long time since I've seen anyone more desperate to criticize my
work, no matter how far the reach.  Like a no-see-um.  Mildly annoying but
otherwise invisible. Get a life, dude.

As for bees, the paper addresses that.  They designed their bait traps with
holes too small for the bees to enter.  Up here honey bees are rare to
non-existent.  It appears that bumblebees do the pollinating.  I haven't seen
a honeybee this high in the mountains in many years. In any event, my time
lapse photography showed no bees at all on the preserves.  In fact, no insects
at all other than a couple of flies.

Since I know that I'm dealing with German yellow jackets, there will be no
more need for sweet bait in the future.  Your "fear" is assuaged.

>France has banned Fipronil because of problems it caused for bees.

Impressive that the man can use Google.  That wouldn't be the first stupid
thing the french have done, now would it?

>Off label use of pesticides is also illegal in this country.
>http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/7/usc_sec_07_00000136---j000-.html

Oh my.  I'm an outlaw.  Wow.  I imagine that the average person breaks dozens
of federal regs every day so I'm in good company.  I won't be losing sleep...
I guess you missed my little editorial about the idiocy of EPA labeling rules.

>    I've gotten good results controlling Yellow Jackets with a simple trap
>like this one, using the water from canned tuna fish for the bait:
>http://www.amazon.com/Victor-M362-Quart-Yellow-Jacket/dp/B001A3QDBQ/ref=pd_bbs_s
r_8?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1217343561&sr=8-8

To use an old James Bond line, I'm not interested in controlling them.  I'm
interested in killing them.

I can't imagine that thing even controlling them.  From the paper, the nests
they took census of contained from 2500 to over 15,000 insects.  How many do
you catch at a time, a couple hundred? In a large nest that many die naturally
every day. You're not even scratching the surface.  Worse, you're actually
attracting them to the area with your dead fish bait.  If you don't have the
trap near your outdoor activity then you're not affecting the scouts that come
around you.  A lose-lose situation.

Those traps give the illusion of control but they don't.  Traps like these

http://www.killsbugsdead.com/fop_d_y_t.asp

sprout around the RV parks up here like weeds.  If anything, they probably
encourage more yellowjackets to nest in the area.  If you're happy with your
"control" then more power to ya.  Here, we're tickled spitless by the almost
total absence of yellow jackets.  It's actually pleasant to have an outdoor
picnic again.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
If stupidity hurt then they'd be putting morphine in the water supply.
Technobarbarian - 30 Jul 2008 01:38 GMT
>>    It looks like the biggest problem with this idea isn't pets--it's
>> bees.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> work, no matter how far the reach.  Like a no-see-um.  Mildly annoying but
> otherwise invisible. Get a life, dude.

   LOL, I was just adding something you left out, that I thought was
significant. If that's a problem for you--oh well.

> As for bees, the paper addresses that.  They designed their bait traps
> with
> holes too small for the bees to enter.  Up here honey bees are rare to
> non-existent.  It appears that bumblebees do the pollinating.

    Moths and other insects also have a role in pollination. Around here
bats also have a significant part to play.

>I haven't seen
> a honeybee this high in the mountains in many years. In any event, my time
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Since I know that I'm dealing with German yellow jackets, there will be no
> more need for sweet bait in the future.  Your "fear" is assuaged.

     Some of the people who read your advice don't live in Tellico Plains.

TB
Cliff - 30 Jul 2008 02:00 GMT
> Those traps give the illusion of control but they don't.  Traps like these
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> If stupidity hurt then they'd be putting morphine in the water supply.

  Do me a favor and "debug" your cooker and stuff before coming here  LOL
as far as I can tell, we have no above ground yellow jackets here ... yet!

Cliff in TN - who can almost SMELL the BBQ already !

Signature

the Bride said to me, "We've been through a LOT together, and most of it was
Your fault!"

Steve Wolf - 28 Jul 2008 17:29 GMT
Well done, John!  Thanks.

>> http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/ants.htm
>>
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> It isn't Global Warming.... It's Jerry Falwell arriving in hell.
nothermark - 28 Jul 2008 23:13 GMT
>>http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/ants.htm
>>
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
>
>John

I have used combat several times on ants.  One shot in the spring
wipes out the colonies and I'm good for another year.  I'll have to
try it on the yellow jackets.

nothermark
Just plain "Dusty" - 29 Jul 2008 15:38 GMT
Good stuff!  Thanks, John...

Dusty

...
> FrontLine is obscenely expensive but Fipronil is available in large
> quantities
> for much more reasonable prices.  I have some of this currently on order:
>
> http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/termidor-sc-p-184.html?gclid=CLWtj87hn5QCFQlqs
goddFN7tQ
...
> More info on german vs American yellow jackets.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> It isn't Global Warming.... It's Jerry Falwell arriving in hell.
Lone Haranguer - 28 Jul 2008 15:06 GMT
> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all of a
> sudden
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Thanks,
> Art

For ants, keep fresh "ant traps" of Terro ant killer in various corners.

We once had a bad infestation of fire ants after the campground at
Coleto Creek, TX was flooded and 2.8 million of the little bastards
crawled up the mud flaps.  It took us weeks to get rid of them.  We put
bacon grease on paper towels and the next morning wrapped them up and
burned the paper towel.
LZ
Gar - 28 Jul 2008 17:02 GMT
>> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all of
>> a sudden
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> burned the paper towel.
> LZ

Only 2.8 Mill???  Hell...  you didn't have a ant problem..  now..  if
they were killer bees and honey...  mebbee...  :)

Signature

Ol' Gar and Mahoney...  Workin' on the Hot-Rod Bus..  under the bridge..
 down by the river..

"Life may not be the party we had hoped for, but as long as we are here
we might as well dance"  [sign on I-35 in South Dakota?]

http://coltonmotorexpress.blogspot.com/

bill horne - 28 Jul 2008 18:46 GMT
>>> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all
>>> of a sudden
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Only 2.8 Mill???  Hell...  you didn't have a ant problem..  now..  if
> they were killer bees and honey...  mebbee...  :)

It's been my experience that people tend to misunderestimate the size of
a fireant gang. It was probably closer to 3.6 million.

Signature

bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

Lone Haranguer - 28 Jul 2008 20:01 GMT
>>>> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all
>>>> of a sudden
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> It's been my experience that people tend to misunderestimate the size of
> a fireant gang. It was probably closer to 3.6 million.

The turnstiles on the mud flaps were broken so I had to get my count
from the dead bodies.  Some estimating was involved.
LZ
Lone Haranguer - 28 Jul 2008 19:27 GMT
>>> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all
>>> of a sudden
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Only 2.8 Mill???  Hell...  you didn't have a ant problem..  now..  if
> they were killer bees and honey...  mebbee...  :)

I've run into lots of "killer" bees.  The main problem is that they are
persistent bastards.  If they want to get in your beer can, you may as
well kill every one as soon as they show up because they won't take no
for an answer.  Messing with the nests will cause them to swarm you so
destroy the nests as soon as they start the building process.  We
destroyed one nearly every year in a Palo Verde tree by our patio in Ajo
but usually if they aren't bothering me, I don't bother them.
LZ
Gar - 28 Jul 2008 22:23 GMT
>>>> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all
>>>> of a sudden
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> but usually if they aren't bothering me, I don't bother them.
> LZ

I had a sting on my tongue from a bee in my beer can..  guess it wasn't
a killer bee cause I lived through it..  thought I was gonna die
though...  :)

Signature

Ol' Gar and Mahoney...  Workin' on the Hot-Rod Bus..  under the bridge..
 down by the river..

"Life may not be the party we had hoped for, but as long as we are here
we might as well dance"  [sign on I-35 in South Dakota?]

http://coltonmotorexpress.blogspot.com/

Bob Giddings - 28 Jul 2008 22:32 GMT
>>>>> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all
>>>>> of a sudden
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>a killer bee cause I lived through it..  thought I was gonna die
>though...  :)

It was probably drunk.  It throws their a.s off.
Lone Haranguer - 29 Jul 2008 00:53 GMT
>> I've run into lots of "killer" bees.  The main problem is that they
>> are persistent bastards.  If they want to get in your beer can, you
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I had a sting on my tongue from a bee in my beer can..  guess it wasn't
> a killer bee cause I lived through it..

Killer bees are just honey bees, actually somewhat smaller than the
standard European honey bee.  You can spot the difference right away
after you've seen a few.

thought I was gonna die
> though...  :)

That will teach you to drink out of cans.

The hybrid bees are hard working and will be out any time during the
winter in SV as long as it reaches 60 degrees, the sun is out and it
isn't too windy.
LZ
Hunter Hampton - 28 Jul 2008 15:10 GMT
>Also, we will be leaving the MH at a
>friend's property while we return home
>for a few weeks.  We will be removing
>all the food stuff.  Any other suggestions
>for keeping insects and critters out?

Hi Art,

First, don't park under trees where leaves are touching the MH,
they'll come in that way.

Second, you need to put Terro ant powder wherever ants can climb up...
like around the jacks the wheels etc.....

IOW block all access with the Terro.

Hunter
LouB - 28 Jul 2008 17:04 GMT
>> Also, we will be leaving the MH at a
>> friend's property while we return home
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Hunter

Bought a package of Terro a couple of months ago after I saw small ants
in the bathroom.  Put box on kitchen counter.  Ants have disappeared.
NEVER opened the package!

Lou
Hunter Hampton - 28 Jul 2008 17:20 GMT
>Bought a package of Terro a couple of months ago after I saw small ants
>in the bathroom.  Put box on kitchen counter.  Ants have disappeared.
>NEVER opened the package!

Just the very threat of it is enough <g>

Hunter
bill horne - 28 Jul 2008 18:48 GMT
>> Bought a package of Terro a couple of months ago after I saw small ants
>> in the bathroom.  Put box on kitchen counter.  Ants have disappeared.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Hunter

That's scary - I didn't know the little bastards could read.

Signature

bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

Robert Bonomi - 28 Jul 2008 20:45 GMT
>>> Bought a package of Terro a couple of months ago after I saw small ants
>>> in the bathroom.  Put box on kitchen counter.  Ants have disappeared.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>That's scary - I didn't know the little bastards could read.

The little-read ones can't.   *grin*
Hunter Hampton - 28 Jul 2008 21:19 GMT
>The little-read ones can't.   *grin*

LOL, I love your sense of humor.

Hunter
LouB - 29 Jul 2008 04:22 GMT
>>> Bought a package of Terro a couple of months ago after I saw small
>>> ants in the bathroom.  Put box on kitchen counter.  Ants have
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> That's scary - I didn't know the little bastards could read.

I was a little surprised too:-))

Lou
Bob Giddings - 28 Jul 2008 17:26 GMT
>>> Also, we will be leaving the MH at a
>>> friend's property while we return home
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
>Lou

apparently ants can read.
Lone Haranguer - 28 Jul 2008 19:28 GMT
>>> Also, we will be leaving the MH at a friend's property while we
>>> return home
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Lou

They must have read the warning label.
LZ
Steve Wolf - 28 Jul 2008 15:41 GMT
Hi Art,

My ant solution is on the ant page on my site.

http://www.wolfswords.com/motorhome/ants.html

Spraying works but ... yuck.  Terro is amazing.  A day or two after you
put it out the ants are gone.

Steve

> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all of a
> sudden
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Thanks,
> Art
PJ - 28 Jul 2008 18:33 GMT
Actually, I'd much rather have ants than cats.

However, try Terro.

Phil

> We've been seeing a few ants here and there in the MH, however, all of a
> sudden
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Thanks,
> Art
Darlington - 28 Jul 2008 21:04 GMT
> Also, we will be leaving the MH at a friend's property while we return
> home
> for a few weeks.  We will be removing all the food stuff.  Any other
> suggestions
> for keeping insects and critters out?

Boric acid is very effective.  I would also give the MH a good spray with
something like Lysol to keep the fungi and bacteria down in such a humid
climate and a closed up MH.
 
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