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Travel Forum / Travel Types / RV Travel / August 2008hydraulic vs electric slides
Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. We are looking at a few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. Any opinions on hydraulic slides? Differences between the two types? What about operation of the hydraulic slides in very cold weather? And methods of closing them if there is a malfunction? Would welcome any information. Gwen in SE PA > Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. We are looking at a > few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. Any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > any information. > Gwen in SE PA Gwen, I have never noticed a difference in closing or opening speed between hot and cold weater in our Hydraulic slide equipped unit. It is a little slower on jacks, which return the fluid by spring pressure against the feet, in cold weather. As to emergency retraction, it is a matter of opening manually the hydraulic line valve at the pump manifold and using a winch type device, should be provided, to pull the slide back in and then closing the valve in that hydraulic line. I have never had any experience with electric slides so couldn't give you a good comparison. Hope this helps some. Dave W. Gwen <GwenOMS@aol.com> wrote in news:90e6a8a9-7f49-47e6-bbff-6f0719e405e0 @x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: > Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. We are looking at a > few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. Any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > any information. > Gwen in SE PA Gwen, Our Montana has 2 Hydraulic slides and 1 Electric slide. When operating them in -25F weather there was no difference discernable. If your concern was the use of Hydraulic Fluid, just remember that the brakes on your motor vehicles use, basically, the same stuff. >Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. We are looking at a >few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. Any >opinions on hydraulic slides? Differences between the two types? >What about operation of the hydraulic slides in very cold weather? >And methods of closing them if there is a malfunction? Would welcome You are wise to be concerned. With regard to cold weather you have had a couple of replies from people who don't know what cold weather is. In really cold (sub -30) weather a hydraulic slide will work poorly or not at all. And FTR, hydraulic fluid is not brake fluid - not even close. As far as closing a hydraulic slide when it malfunctions: You open a valve somewhere, push the slide in somehow and in the process puke all the oil out somewhere - likely on the ground. I've had hydraulic slides - never had a rack and pinion but from a distance they look better. Its hard to believe they could be worse. One problem with hydraulics that you didn't mention is that they can get out of time which means that your slide will travel crooked until you cycle the cylinders fully. Not a big deal but a major PITA. I wouldn't say its a deal breaker but given a choice - go with the rack and pinion.  SignatureR.J.(Bob) Evans (return address needs alteration to work) http://travellingwithgeorge.blogspot.com/ >>Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. We are looking at a >>few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. Any [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I wouldn't say its a deal breaker but given a choice - go with the > rack and pinion. Bob, the check valve you would open on any HWH hydraulic system I have ever seen it is the check valve and returns the fluid to the reservoir. Correct, I don't camp in -30 degree weather, don't really know anybody personally that does. I have driven truck and operated hydraulic systems in sub zero temperatures without any problems I recall, but that was 30 years ago. Dave. > I have driven truck and operated hydraulic systems in sub zero > temperatures without any problems I recall, but that was 30 years ago. I have operated my HWH system down to 19 degrees... a few hours later I was 200 miles south... Think about it all the snow plows I know about use hydraulics to operate their plows and they seem to work quite well in sub zero weather... SignatureJim >> I have driven truck and operated hydraulic systems in sub zero >> temperatures without any problems I recall, but that was 30 years ago. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Think about it all the snow plows I know about use hydraulics to operate > their plows and they seem to work quite well in sub zero weather... I agree on that, we usually don't mind hitting a little snow each year, but I try to avoid cold temps with the RV when I can. But I have used hydraulics in much colder temps than I would choose to take my RV. Dave W. >>> I have driven truck and operated hydraulic systems in sub zero >>> temperatures without any problems I recall, but that was 30 years [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Dave W. The aerial ladders in Green Bay, WI seem to work OK during the winter. <G> Max >>>> I have driven truck and operated hydraulic systems in sub zero >>>> temperatures without any problems I recall, but that was 30 years [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>> operate their plows and they seem to work quite well in sub zero >>> weather... >> I agree on that, we usually don't mind hitting a little snow each >> year, but I try to avoid cold temps with the RV when I can. But I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The aerial ladders in Green Bay, WI seem to work OK during the winter. ><G> All you wiseasses are welcome to speculate all you want. The OP asked about using hydraulic slideouts in cold weather and I told him they don't work worth a sh.t. You're welcome to guess otherwise but so far I'm the only one with any real world experience. And contrary to the BS posted here, the performance of all hydraulic systems suffers in real winter. That doesn't mean they don't work but some hydraulic systems are actually designed for cold weather operation. The ones they put on RVs aren't. SignatureR.J.(Bob) Evans (return address needs alteration to work) http://travellingwithgeorge.blogspot.com/ > All you wiseasses are welcome to speculate all you want. The OP asked > about using hydraulic slideouts in cold weather and I told him they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > some hydraulic systems are actually designed for cold weather > operation. The ones they put on RVs aren't. Maybe you missed the part where I said "I have operated my HWH system down to 19 degrees..." Maybe that is not cold enough for you but it was for me. Maybe you think that HWH does not make slideouts but I assure you they do and they work down to at least 19 degrees. SignatureJim > Maybe you missed the part where I said "I have operated my HWH system > down to 19 degrees..." Maybe that is not cold enough for you but it was > for me. Maybe you think that HWH does not make slideouts but I assure > you they do and they work down to at least 19 degrees. In Florida, 19 degrees is really cold. In the north, it's not. When the overnight lows are 19 degrees, much of the north calls it "spring" or "fall", and keeps using the RVs. We got our first RV shortly after I took Carolyn tent camping in April and we woke up to 4" of snow on the tent. Lon > In Florida, 19 degrees is really cold. In the north, it's not. When the > overnight lows are 19 degrees, much of the north calls it "spring" or > "fall", and keeps using the RVs. Spent a few years just south of the St. Lawrence River in NY... -35 was the normal temperature on a winter morning. I am retired now and 19 degrees is time to head further south.. There was sleet on Logans Pass in Glacier National Park yesterday. The park was fabulous but I am on the way south already! SignatureJim >> In Florida, 19 degrees is really cold. In the north, it's not. When >> the overnight lows are 19 degrees, much of the north calls it "spring" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in Glacier National Park yesterday. The park was fabulous but I am on > the way south already! We were in Glacier the 3rd week of July. The Going to the Sun road had only been open for 2 weeks because of the heavy snow, and there were waterfalls everywhere as the snow melted. IMHO, our timing couldn't have been better. Amazing stuff to see. Especially the bull moose that was belly deep in water. Does the snow ever go away completely up there? Lon > Maybe you missed the part where I said "I have operated >my HWH system down to 19 degrees..." Maybe that is not cold >enough for you but it was for me. Maybe you think that HWH >does not make slideouts but I assure you they do and they >work down to at least 19 degrees. You are joking right? 19 degrees is summer weather. Good on ya for getting your slide out at 19. Try 19 below next time. And then try it when its really cold. I assure you that you will notice a difference. SignatureR.J.(Bob) Evans (return address needs alteration to work) http://travellingwithgeorge.blogspot.com/ >> Maybe you missed the part where I said "I have operated >> my HWH system down to 19 degrees..." Maybe that is not cold [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And then try it when its really cold. I assure you that you will > notice a difference. I had a hydraulic loader on my AC tractor that was VERY reluctant to move on below zero mornings. After 10-15 minutes of use the oil got warmed up and the machinery moved but still slower than summer. Those who have spent time with Browning .50 calibers know that the main difference between the M-2 and M-3 is that the M-3 has a hydraulic buffer on the rear end. We couldn't get the fluid in Korea and tried everything from motor oil to compass damping fluid. Kerosene and #10 oil worked too but when you fired a cold gun (often -40) it sounded like a slow repeater instead of a full auto. As the oil warmed up, the rate of fire increased. BANG......BANG.....BANG....BANG...BANG..BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG...... New pilots were known to say WTF? when this happened to the wing and/or nose guns on a strafing run.... :) LZ > All you wiseasses are welcome to speculate all you want. The OP asked > about using hydraulic slideouts in cold weather and I told him they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > some hydraulic systems are actually designed for cold weather > operation. The ones they put on RVs aren't. Perhaps you glossed over that part of my post where I specified flawless operation at -25F. This was in the Glorious Month of December, in a little town ~6 miles South of the Canadian Border: Warroad, MN. While your experiences - obviously - differ from mine, I'd suspect that lowered battery output due to the cold temps may have had more effect than the hydraulic fluid. OBTW - the manual that came with my rig specified "Type A" automatic transmission fluid as an alternative to the jack oil that it came with. <G> Perhaps the ones in *your* earlier RV weren't intended for Cold Weather but, as my experiences show, the ones in *my* rig were. > With regard to cold weather you have > had a couple of replies from people who don't know what cold weather > is. In really cold (sub -30) weather a hydraulic slide will work > poorly or not at all. Bob, I suspect that if you're occupying you're RV in temperatures below negative 30, your slides working slowly will be the least of your worries. - Bill (El Alumbrado) >> With regard to cold weather you have >> had a couple of replies from people who don't know what cold weather [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > below negative 30, your slides working slowly will be the least of > your worries. LOL! Keeping enough Propane on hand trumps slide operability. So does keeping the plumbing unfrozen - especially the dump valves. BTDT!!! >Bob, I suspect that if you're occupying you're RV in temperatures below >negative 30, your slides working slowly will be the least of your worries. I used to have you filtered - I'm starting to remember why. The OP asked about "very cold weather". Where I come from "very" starts at -30. YMMV. SignatureR.J.(Bob) Evans (return address needs alteration to work) http://travellingwithgeorge.blogspot.com/ >> Bob, I suspect that if you're occupying you're RV in temperatures below >> negative 30, your slides working slowly will be the least of your worries. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The OP asked about "very cold weather". Where I come from "very" > starts at -30. YMMV. The OP comes from Philadelphia. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > The OP asked about "very cold weather". Where I come from "very" > starts at -30. YMMV. Where I am, it's very cold when it gets down to 32. I've never even dreamed of being in an RV where the outside temperature is anything below the freezing point of water. But I've had nightmares about -40 in North Korea. Max >>Bob, I suspect that if you're occupying you're RV in temperatures below >>negative 30, your slides working slowly will be the least of your worries. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The OP asked about "very cold weather". Where I come from "very" > starts at -30. YMMV. For those like Bob that are either required to or due to some unknown reason or mental condition choose to use their RV in sub -30 degree temperatures the following link will be very helpful. http://www.wainwright.army.mil/nwtc/Classes/Slides/Effects%20of%20Cold%20on%20Mi litary%20Equipment.ppt It will also give you information to keep your firearms and communications equipment functioning as well as you can under those kinds of conditions. Yes below -25 they do recommend changing the grade of hydraulic fluid. It also points out that at -30 degrees your power available from your lead acid battery will be 10 % of it's capacity diminishing to near 0 % at -40. I assure you that this will affect the operation of your hydraulic pump if on battery but I suspect also the operation of your electric slides, as noted by Ram. In these conditions many other problems with your vehicle will present themselves. Metals become brittle, rubber loses it's flexibility, different contractions and expansion levels between materials can be a problem, fuels, lubricants, along with other problems to consider. Much like most of us many things don't work right in extreme cold. When we are in a location expecting an Ice Storm and I have any plans of moving before a thaw I always pull in my slides before the storm and leave them in. As to Bob's earlier statement about puking the fluid out "likely on the ground". If someone is goofy enough just to loosen a fitting in the line anywhere and pull the slide in that would certainly happen. If one uses his brain or looks at the manual he will almost always find a check valve I refer to, often controled by a solenoid with a manual over ride to return the fluid safely to the reservoir. For those that have to or choose to operate this type of equipment in -30 temperatures I assure you that you have my sympathy, cold for me and our rig is in the teens, occasionally in the single digits. Dave W. > "TXBill" wrote: > >>Bob, I suspect that if you're occupying you're RV in temperatures below >>negative 30, your slides working slowly will be the least of your worries. > > I used to have you filtered - I'm starting to remember why. I don't remember you as being unpleasant. Filter me if I annoy you by all means, but I'd think less of you if you did so simply becuase I disagreed with something you said. > The OP asked about "very cold weather". Where I come from "very" > starts at -30. I don't think there are too many places in North America where the temperatre regulalrly dips below minus 30. If such an extreme is your definition of "very cold" I respectfully suggest that you might want to consider a more "life friendly" climate. Using the "reasonable man" approach, I propose that most people in North America would reasonably state that "very cold" starts probably somewhere south of "freezing". Minus 30 (C or F) is probably more like "Frickin' Cold". Maybe even "Unbelievably Cold". How about "Insanely Cold", in the sense that a "reasonable man" would be insane to try and live in an RV at negative 30 or below? I believe that God put palm trees on Earth to let folks know where it's safe to live. "Minus 30" is God's way of saying "Live somewhere else". - Bill >> "TXBill" wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------ > Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access One Bill to another I agree with you. That is the reason so many folks like me head south in the winter. Here in the great frozen north we in Alabamie hate it when the temperature gets at +30, it is frickng cold and we head em up and get south. A standard heating unit (furnace) in an RV is not intended to maintain living temperature when outside air is less than "0", complements of the Forrest River owners manual. SignatureBILL P. As one that has now spent TWO winters in a FR-RV, i can assure you they are right. LOL! We'll get the house done someday...... steve > A standard heating unit (furnace) in an RV is not intended to maintain > living temperature when outside air is less than "0", complements of the > Forrest River owners manual. > One Bill to another I agree with you. That is the reason so many folks > like me head south in the winter. Here in the great frozen north we in > Alabamie hate it when the temperature gets at +30, it is frickng cold > and we head em up and get south. A standard heating unit (furnace) in an > RV is not intended to maintain living temperature when outside air is > less than "0", complements of the Forrest River owners manual. In the mid 50s my wife and I lived through several Minisoda winters in a 20 ft. Mallard camper. It was all we could afford on a SSgt's pay. LZ >> One Bill to another I agree with you. That is the reason so many folks >> like me head south in the winter. Here in the great frozen north we in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 20 ft. Mallard camper. It was all we could afford on a SSgt's pay. > LZ I know what you were going through, one must do what he must do. I lived in Newfoundland for two winters in a park model with a oil stove, cold as hell. We sold out as soon as we could and moved in to a permanent building. BILL P. > One Bill to another I agree with you. That is the reason so many folks > like me head south in the winter. Here in the great frozen north we in > Alabamie hate it when the temperature gets at +30, it is frickng cold > and we head em up and get south. A standard heating unit (furnace) in an > RV is not intended to maintain living temperature when outside air is > less than "0", complements of the Forrest River owners manual. Around 1994 or 1995, when we were looking for our first fulltiming fiver, a salesman for Teton brand told me that his rigs had insulation to keep them comfortable to 20 degrees below zero. I replied that with wheels under my home, why would I be stupid enough to stay in some place that got that cold. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >> One Bill to another I agree with you. That is the reason so many folks >> like me head south in the winter. Here in the great frozen north we in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > wheels under my home, why would I be stupid enough to stay in some place > that got that cold. When I was younger like most other people are now, I could stand the cold weather. Now when it gets down to +50 my joints don't seem to have any lubricant. Just have to take it as I can. But we are faced with a bad weather year with all the storms coming in. Cant seem to make up my mind where I want to winter at. Might have to go all the way over to Arizona and spend a season with LZ. That is a long way over there. Considering trying Del Rio, I think there is still an Air Force Base there. SignatureBILL P. >>> One Bill to another I agree with you. That is the reason so many >>> folks like me head south in the winter. Here in the great frozen [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Arizona and spend a season with LZ. That is a long way over there. > Considering trying Del Rio, I think there is still an Air Force Base there. I think Laughlin is still in business. They have a famcamp there and another by the Hwy 90 bridge, west of Del Rio. http://www.laughlinservices.com/famcamp.htm I see there prices are up to $15/day. http://www.rvparkreviews.com/regions/Texas/Lake_Amistad.html If you're coming to SV, get your reservations in early. Last year they were fully booked by Oct 1st. We've enjoyed this park several times but it is 25 miles to Kingsville and the Navy Commissary. http://www.rivieraisd.esc2.net/rvpark.htm LZ >>>> One Bill to another I agree with you. That is the reason so many >>>> folks like me head south in the winter. Here in the great frozen [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > http://www.rivieraisd.esc2.net/rvpark.htm > LZ Thanks for the contact web links. I toured that area winter before last or spring on my way back north. Did not see the high level RV parks like is down in The valley. I do like the resort camp ground standard, with senior participating in a gated community. SignatureBILL P. >I believe that God put palm trees on Earth to let folks know where it's safe >to live. "Minus 30" is God's way of saying "Live somewhere else". I subscribe to the same thinking. Doesn't change my definition of "very cold". Some of us were unfortunate enough to be born in a climate that hits considerably lower than -30 in the depths of winter. And some of us were stupid enough to spend most of our lives working within 100 miles of where we were born. SignatureR.J.(Bob) Evans (return address needs alteration to work) http://travellingwithgeorge.blogspot.com/ >>I believe that God put palm trees on Earth to let folks know where it's safe >>to live. "Minus 30" is God's way of saying "Live somewhere else". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >And some of us were stupid enough to spend most of our lives working >within 100 miles of where we were born. DW & I moved from Iowa the day of our marriage (after the ceremony) and landed in Arizona. We ain't no dummies. --- $$$$$$$$$%% Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! >>> I believe that God put palm trees on Earth to let folks know where it's safe >>> to live. "Minus 30" is God's way of saying "Live somewhere else". [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > $$$$$$$$$%% > Yours truly, Johnny Dollar! There was a time I looked forward to the delights of winter. Cross-country skiing, snowshoeing, hunting in the snow, ice fishing, towing the kids on the lake with the old tractor. Never thought twice about the inconveniences. Our sons still love winter but the daughters much less so. Skiing is about their only outdoor activity in winter. Esposa hates winter with a passion. LZ > Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. �We are looking at a > few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. �Any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > any information. > Gwen in SE PA Hi Gwen, Your questions are valid and I think you are doing the right thing by asking people on here of their opinion rather than a salesman that probably doesn't have a clue. Altho, when it comes down to purchasing, have one of the techs SHOW you (not just tell you) how to override whatever system you plan on buying. Hank <~~~likes to be shown > Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. We are looking at a > few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. Any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > any information. > Gwen in SE PA I've had both types. I'd go with rack and pinion simply because it's so much easier to manually operate them. All it takes is the crank and some elbow grease. With the hydraulics, you have to mess with valves and fluids. It's ucky. I never had the hydraulic in cold weather so I can't answer that question. The hydraulics seemed to open faster than the rack and pinions. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. We are looking at a > few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. Any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > any information. > Gwen in SE PA I think our hydraulic slides are great (but I haven't used others so can't speak to a comparison with other kinds). We did have the living room slide fail to come in, one time. I released the valve and simply cranked the slide in. No fluid on the ground or anywhere else. Called HWH and they promptly sent me a new part. It was an easy, do it myself fix. I like having the slides and stabilizers working from the same hydraulic system instead of different systems with different places to call for troubleshooting and HWH has a very good reputation. SignatureKevin W. Miller http://www.bluemoongemworks.com/rv/index.asp My 5th wheel is a Cardinal. It has 2 hydraulic slides. So far, I have not had any problems. However, I feel it is prudent to be prepared. I have looked as hard as I can, but I can't find a check valve to release or a crank to use to crank the slide back in. Any idea where to find these items? Do they exist on a Cardinal? It may be a silly question, but If I can release the hydraulic pressure, but can't find the hand crank, is it at all possible for me to push the slide back in? David >> Okay, here is the most recent question / concern. We are looking at a >> few fifth wheel RVs, and we've always had electric slides. Any [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >different systems with different places to call for troubleshooting and HWH >has a very good reputation. > My 5th wheel is a Cardinal. It has 2 hydraulic slides. So far, I > have not had any problems. However, I feel it is prudent to be > prepared. Hey! That'd make a good motto for some group of kids.... > I have looked as hard as I can, but I can't find a check valve to > release or a crank to use to crank the slide back in. I can't say where it would be on yours but on mine the valves are attached to the resevoir. On the end of each valve is a metal "T" which can be turned to release the pressure in the line. The crank is an device, similar to a come-a-long, that attaches to the floor and the living room slide making it easy to crank it back in. The bedroom slide, according to the instructions, can simply be pushed back in, if needed. SignatureKevin W. Miller "The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference" - Charles Darwin http://www.bluemoongemworks.com/rv/index.asp >> However, I feel it is prudent to be prepared. >Hey! That'd make a good motto for some group of kids.... True -- but it would be more "punchy" if all but the last two words were eliminated, doncha think? GB in NC >>> However, I feel it is prudent to be prepared. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > GB in NC Well, of course it'd need some work. And we wouldn't want it to apply to "gay" kids, of course... SignatureKevin W. Miller "The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference" - Charles Darwin http://www.bluemoongemworks.com/rv/index.asp >> True -- but it would be more "punchy" if all but the last two words >> were eliminated, doncha think? >> >> GB in NC >Well, of course it'd need some work. And we wouldn't want it to apply to >"gay" kids, of course... Of course. GB in NC >>> However, I feel it is prudent to be prepared. > >>Hey! That'd make a good motto for some group of kids.... > >True -- but it would be more "punchy" if all but the last two words were >eliminated, doncha think? I can do better than that. *ONE* word. "Applesauce" After all, applesauce is _always_ prepared. *groan* |
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